We need to fix the trade hubs

high-sec

(Alessienne Ellecon) #1

I’ve only been playing EVE for a couple of years, so the empire market hubs were created long before my time. I did however, chat to a returning player who helped set up Dodixie way back when. I started playing just before the CONCORD market hub at Yulai breathed its last.

Back then, Jita was a vibrant bazaar of wonders. Now, it’s a ■■■■■■■ cesspit of suicide gankers, chat bots and lazy-ass scammers who can’t think of a single original idea for a scam. Jita is infected with space AIDS and despite CCP’s physical support, I fear for its future. Nowadays I rarely, if ever, go to Jita.

Dodixie is experiencing severe dysfunction, if not straight up dying. There are significant gaps in supply in inventory which sometimes have to be filled by other hubs, which is just one of the factors driving up prices. Rupee Rue’s shenanigans aren’t exactly helping, either. I’m not entirely sure how this would be remedied, but I do know action needs to be taken soon before the Federation’s biggest marketplace begins to resemble a Venezuelan grocery store.

Amarr, on the other hand, is still the chill place I discovered as a carebear. The locals are generally nice and whatever I can’t get in Dodixie I can get there at a reasonable price. Given that’s it’s only a short hop through lowsec, I’m wondering if Dodixie’s proximity to Amarr is one of the reasons for Dodixie’s woes. Maybe the Gallente hub should be relocated further away, to even out the distribution of goods?

Since the demise of Hek, Rens has seen a lot more traffic, but prices are still competitive. Whatever my Minmatar alt needs she can get pretty cheap in Rens.

I’d also like to bring up the possibility of a lowsec hub to replace Hek in terms of scope and purpose, in a system far enough from the other hubs to not be economically problematic, but not close enough to favour any particular nullsec region. Nullsec alliances, of course, can support their own regional markets.
Static wormhole market citadels could also be an option. I’ve never been to Thera, so I don’t know what the market’s like there, but any diver with sufficient knowledge of static routes could anchor a Fortizar in a wormhole between multiple regions and set up a hub of their own.

If any of the original market pioneers are reading this, I’d love to hear from you.


(yellow parasol) #2

Hek is the pirate’s minihub. i don’t see how you can dream of replacing it with a lowsec minihub. the lowsec systems around thelan, rancer, otou, etc are all more or less occupied. even dreaming of setting up a hub somewhere around there is going to attract every single pirate from ten jumps away. even assuming people get in safely, they’re not going to get out alive. :smiley:

i want to see that happening… it’d be a gigantic crapfest of tears and destruction.


(Hipqo) #3

Well, none of the main “trade hubs” in eve was created by ccp. They were made by players, heres a little info on it: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/496s4u/history_lesson_requested_how_did_jita_44_become/


(Art Vandolay) #4

What is this?


(Scipio Artelius) #5

Anyone that has been in Dodixie knows who Rupee Rue is.


(Art Vandolay) #6

Can you shed some light as this person’s infamy was great enough to include her in your OP.


(Sabriz Adoudel) #7

Rupee is the most talkative and chatty (and friendly) scammer in Dodi.


(Alessienne Ellecon) #8

Rupee’s endless market manipulations (not just scamming) are distorting the market and may be killing Dodixie.


(Sabriz Adoudel) #9

Dodi is dying for other reasons.

It can’t compete with Perimeter/Urlen/Ikutchi and there is minimal local demand. Dodi survives solely from inertia.

Hell, I’m moving operations away from there and I have every reason to stay there (incredible standings, intricate knowledge of all the local centres of demand and supply).


(Sabriz Adoudel) #10

As for market manipulations - I am far from the only person with the resources to respond aggressively to market manipulations in Dodi.

I do a bit of it myself, and the ABC of market manipulation is that anyone that can recognise what you are doing fast can brutally punish you for it, and make a lot of ISK at your expense.

The best indicator of how slow commerce is in Dodi is looking at how little Morphite moves there. That’s a product that is in huge demand game wide, is not practical for end users to produce themselves, and is very easy to import from Jita.


(Durhur Atruin) #11

You can’t really “fix” this problem. It has always happened in the largest trade hub regardless of where it is. The “Nigerian Price” variety of scammers have been around since day one, and so have the gankers. I don’t really see that as being any worse now than it has ever been.

Although, perhaps the impact of suicide gankers is felt more now since freighters were introduced, making each ganking a bigger loss.


(Lulu Lunette) #12

That was a cool read :slightly_smiling_face:


(Patti 'Potato' Patrouette) #13

When the scammers go, you will know the hub is dead.
People die, hubs die.

If you had a time machine, you would see the populations of the hubs change, but the scamming a constant.

No one tycoon, or group of tycoons made those hubs.

They grew.

At one time Lvl 4 missions were one of the most lucrative isk sources in game.
Even null bears would have mission running alts as their income source, running them afk as they do anoms now.

Dodixie is a lvl 4 hub. Hence its size.

Now who would run a level 4, a much smaller subset of the game you can be sure.

There is probably an area of your town or city that is filled with large houses and tree lined avenues, now the preserve of bed sits and transients, what was once the heart of the city and its most prestigious streets.


(Veyreuth) #14

I’ve been out of the game for an extended period, but I used to comment on this issue in the past. I truly believe the issue is related to the way large corporations sell raw materials. Any bulk minerals and moon goo they accumulate go to Jita almost exclusively. Selling large amounts of raw materials in other trade hubs could make for an extended time for it to become liquid ISK. Since the raw materials all get sold in Jita, industrialists then end up buying, manufacturing, and selling in the Forge. It becomes the most efficient place to do business, so business gravitates there.

I believe the game would be served well with scaling taxes. You pay higher taxes to buy in sell in more market active systems/regions. This will give large null sec corporations that are moving large amounts of raw materials incentive to sell places other than Jita, for the tax advantage. The tax savings mean that these raw materials can be sold for a lower price in other regions while being more profitable.

Once raw materials are more spread out, then industrialists can spread out. Increase shipping expenses (jump freighter fuel and/or safety) along with the previously mentioned scaling tax will encourage the industrialists to buy their raw materials and sell their finished goods in places other than the Forge. Once a wider variety and a higher quantity of goods hit market outside of The Forge, buyers can then have confidence that they can go to any number of systems and regions and buy what they need for a reasonable price.


(Lulu Lunette) #15

Nice bump :smile:

I think your change is an interesting idea but I have this hunch that they (CCP) have been doing the little things to secretly give Jita a nerf. Not just with jump changes but the so called road-map is to lead to a player built everything; including a market.

No doubt, CCP wants to decentralize Jita but the tears and outrage if they were to just come out and say it. The game’s culture - Hell our center of the cluster is Jita. How to break that?

I’ve been experimenting with selling stuff at a Citadel and having all my business there like it’s Jita. It’s been interesting so far seeing what sells quickly and what just doesn’t. I’ve got everything priced like it’s Jita too. The volume is extremely slow and just doesn’t compare with The Forge’s mighty regional market. And my wallet is merely a drop in the bucket.

Oh well :purple_heart:


(Jeronica) #16

It takes trillions to successfully set up a new market hub. Fact is there are a lot of people still OK with paying 2% broker fees, or “right click sell” to buy orders which can be offshored. I’ve always been a large proponent of removing the citadel markets from the NPC markets, you can just dwarf a market with a single 5b azbel and 0% fees.


(erg cz) #17

Jita is only 2 jumps from gallente space. Make its constallation (as well as neighbouring gallente constallation) factonal warfare zone or at least low sec and the problem is solved.

FW overhaul may be comming next year, why not use it to mess the market a little? :wink: Imagine all that action around new low sec systems. Why not make it so, that player can not go from Amarr to Jita without jumping through at least two low sec systems. Divide factions high sec space entirely with low sec on their borders!


(Jeronica) #18

Isn’t uedama/niarja “lowsec” enough? :joy_cat:


(darkestkhan Eriker) #19

Since the demise of Hek?

Sorry but Hek is alive and quite well. By comparison Rens is dying.


(Far Wanderer) #20

HiSec trade hubs do not need to be fixed.

They need to remain just as they are, whether it be chill, chaotic, or what have you, while Citadel markets establish themselves and we all see how things shake out.

EVE is changing.

Let it change.