What considerations has CCP made for PvE after Resist nerf?

[Scoots_Choco]

@Zhalyd_Lyehin

I have not and I would not know how to do that

So how do you know this is going to ruin your “delicate balance”?

[Elaniera]

@Zhalyd_Lyehin

A web is pointless. This is a sentry dominix.

It was just one example dude. Tracking disruptors work against NPCs don’t they?

Download PyFA, run the numbers and you might find adjustments that actually make things seem not bad at all.

[Ms_Steak]

What considerations has CCP made for PvE after Resist nerf?

From follow up topic:

@CCP_Rise

PVE and the resist change

Many of you are concerned about high end PVE viability under the resist module nerf. This was one of our biggest hesitations around this change as well so we will be watching closely. Our expectation is that in almost all situations some fitting adjustments will be needed and completion speeds may go down slightly if damage or speed has to be sacrificed. If situations arise where specific content becomes prohibitively difficult we will make adjustments to that content to bring it back in line.

Tl;DR:
Players: but muh comfy perfectly solved PvE!!!
CCP: Deal with it. HTFU!

[Scoots_Choco]

@Zhalyd_Lyehin

I base my statements on my experience from past runs of missions where I have had issues already and where the current resists just barely ensured that I did not have to buy a new ship.

So I’ve taken a look at Pyfa and your fit.
The only module that’ll be impacted is your Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane. Currently, with perfect skills, it grants you 25% resistances.

Here are the stats for your Dominix using a perfectly skilled character with Level 5 in all skills:

Here are the stats for your Dominix using a perfectly skilled character taking into consideration the 20% nerf to your single EANM II.

Now, are you telling me, that your:

@Zhalyd_Lyehin

delicate balance between tank an DPS.

Will be thrown off kilter with just a 2k ehp difference in your Armor? Note that your Shield and Hull aren’t changed, at all, by this patch.

BY THE WAY. In case you don’t know how to read, Battleships, like your Dominix, are also getting a 10% base HP increase.
.
.
.
.
So please.
Tell me.

What “delicate balance” are you talking about?
Have you actually done the math on this? Or are you just knee jerking and whining because you have no idea of what you’re talking about, as usual?

AND EVEN IF, you want to whine, if your entire fit relies on the fine line of 2k ehp (which is HALF A FRIGATE’s worth of EHP, btw), then your fit is terrible and you need a better fit. So either way, you’re wrong. So please tell me, is this really a fit that’s a “delicate balance” or are you just mad because you don’t actually know what you’re talking about and think this is worse than it actually is?

@Zhalyd_Lyehin

That experience is just as significant as damage graphs from Pyfa. It is more significant even because Pyfa graphs don’t take actual NPC composition and damages into account.

You don’t know what Pyfa is or how to use it, so how are you confident enough to make this statement? Do you not realize you can adjust various parameters to account for “NPC composition” and “damages”?

TL:DR, you are whining and crying about a patch that will take you from 72.7k EHP down to 70.7k EHP. You are crying over a 2k EHP difference. ALL of which, is more than easily handled by your Hull buffer tank.

The patch will have ZERO impact on your krabbing dominix, which you claim is a “delicate balance”.

[Zhalyd_Lyehin]

@Scoots_Choco

Have you actually done the math on this? Or are you just knee jerking and whining because you have no idea of what you’re talking about, as usual?

In contrast to you I know I have run these missions and I know how they deal with the ship I use. Your pyfa numbers tell you arbitrary figures without any real-world application. I suggest you run one of these missions and see how your different figures impact the survivability and usability of the ship. Put your figures into practice and then you can talk.

@Scoots_Choco

You don’t know what Pyfa is or how to use it, so how are you confident enough to make this statement?

I know what Pyfa is. And as stated above, I have my experience with these missions and other missions and base my statements on that experience and not on arbitrary figures. What you do not know is how to put the arbitrary figures Pyfa hands to you into practical application. Go run the missions, you will see for yourself.

[Daichi_Yamato]

@Scarlet_Starfire

Yeah, a nerf for PvE but a buff for high-sec gankers.

Makes you wonder who makes these decisions.

What do you mean?

When ganking was nerfed by the damage control changes, did that also make you wonder who makes these decisions?

@Zhalyd_Lyehin

This barely holding tank is of course partly by design because I want the challenge. However, it is also a carefully crafted balance between challenge and feasibility of a mission.

So ccp should design the whole game around artificial challenges players set themselves?

If i want to do level4’s in a venture, should CCP change the game for that?

@Zhalyd_Lyehin

CCP wanted to nerf capital survivability.

This is not the only purpose of the change. And your domi fit has one mod that is effected by the change…bloody hell. You probably won’t even need to change the fit but could do so with a little investment in a faction mod.

You’ll barely notice the difference and if you’re doing it this way for the challenge in the first place, you’ll have more fun with that tiny loss in tank.

[Scoots_Choco]

@Zhalyd_Lyehin

I have run these missions and I know how they deal with the ship I use.

Have you ever completed a mission in which you survived with LESS THAN 2K EHP?

That’s the only question that matters.

Because if:
YES - this upcoming patch will be bad for you. (this also means your fit is bad)
No - this upcoming patch will not matter at all for you.

Anything else you want to say, please back it up with actual numbers and stats. I don’t care about your ~feelings~. I want to see hard numbers, hard stats. Actual evidence.

[Sevlec_Saaad]

@Scoots_Choco

Here are the stats for your Dominix using a perfectly skilled character with Level 5 in all skills:

Ummmm…yeah…I’m sure you’re right about the Dominix…but we were discussing the Gila. I hope you’re right that the planned nerfs won’t see less use of the Gila - you certainly seem much more technically adept with fitting details than I am! I can only say that I had to bling my PVE ship - and skill up heaps - before it could survive level IV PVE solo. Maybe it will just mean a different style of fit…

I’ll still use my Gilas for sure, from time to time, 'cos I think they’re just a beautiful-looking bird.

[Zhalyd_Lyehin]

@Scoots_Choco

Have you ever completed a mission in which you survived with LESS THAN 2K EHP?

What kind of rubbish argument is that? If I wanted to hull tank, I would have fitted bulkheads instead of an armor tank. This Dominix has been in structure a few times simply because too much damage from the NPCs. The “just 2k less EHP” will have a measurable impact and not in a good way.

@Scoots_Choco

I want to see hard numbers, hard stats. Actual evidence.

No, you do not. Otherwise you would run these missions right now on Sisi instead of insisting on your pyfa numbers like a maniac. Go on and run them, you will get your hard numbers and facts. I have done that already and I have given you my experience above. You only show theoretical numbers without any practical reference and backup. I suggest you come up with something practical that backsup your claims. I have done so already and my experience suggests that your “it’s only 2k EHP” matters a lot more than your arbitrary pyfa numbers suggest.

@Daichi_Yamato

So ccp should design the whole game around artificial challenges players set themselves?
If i want to do level4’s in a venture, should CCP change the game for that?

Childish exaggeration again, a common theme with your arguments. CCP has had the perfect design for this ship for years and it is not a perfectly min/maxed setting like your completely invulnerable Rattlesnake. What I expect is that CCP focuses on the things that need actual fixing without ruining everything else in the process.

[Scoots_Choco]

@Sevlec_Saaad

Ummmm…yeah…I’m sure you’re right about the Dominix…but we were discussing the Gila.

Link your Gila fit, kid.
I was talking to someone else, if you can’t get that through your thick head.

[Daichi_Yamato]

@Zhalyd_Lyehin

What I expect is that CCP focuses on the things that need actual fixing without ruining everything else in the process.

Like people running pve too easily and rebalancing risk/reward as per the roadmap?

[Zhalyd_Lyehin]

@Daichi_Yamato

Like people running pve too easily and rebalancing risk/reward as per the roadmap?

You do that targeted in missions and pve content by changing that stuff up, and not by simply nerfing resistance and then calling it a victory. That is just lazy and unimaginative.

[Sevlec_Saaad]

hmmmm…nice. I think I’ll pass.

[Black_Pedro]

There are people who ride the edge of what is possible and who will need to make real adjustments.

This is probably not you. Unless you are occasionally losing ships because you a really are riding the razor’s edge of what is possible, you won’t even notice this change for PvE. And if you are one of those, you will know how minor this is and adjust your fits. But if you are like most people, you are running a way overtuned fit you took off the internet that so outclasses the content, you can’t lose a ship. You have enough buffer to not even the notice the difference which is practically in the noise of the RNG damage.

Normal missions have enjoyed a decade-and-a-bit of power creep completely trivializing them. Funny, I don’t remember much complaining when people have to readjust their fits after each buff or new module CCP added that made PvE faster/easier/safer? But the tiniest of tuning things down brings out a torrent of farmer tears…

Anyway, a basic balanced T2 fit can handle most PvE with no risk, and so unless you are the type who purposely looks for a challenge with some sub-optimal or eccentric ship choice, your basic PvE experience will be exactly the same. And if you are that type, you probably will look forward to the puzzle and challenge of designing a new fit to run the mission after this small change.

[Scoots_Choco]

@Sevlec_Saaad

. I think I’ll pass.

Then I think I’ll block you as being another knee jerk reactionary kid who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

I’m not sorry that the patch notes seem scary to you. But I hope at some point, you learn enough about the game to realize how impactful these changes actually are. Instead of freaking out like you are doing currently.

Good luck, kid.

[Daichi_Yamato]

@Zhalyd_Lyehin

That is just lazy and unimaginative.

It one change that touches on several areas at once.

• It slows down pve.
• It reduces the power of logi.
• It reduces the power of caps.
• It hurts vets more than new players.
• It hurts fleet fights more than small-gang.
• It’s a much needed buff to ganking.
• It’s a much needed increase to destruction.

Now if CCP were to try and re-write all pve, that would take years. That would take longer than the module tieracide…but this touches upon several areas at once with a simple change.

[Sevlec_Saaad]

Actually, the changes don’t seem scary at all - I was merely attempting to discuss the potential pros and cons, specifically with regard to the Gila. As for “freaking out”?? Might I suggest that your terminology is just a wee bit over the top? I was just hoping for a friendly conversation on the subject really.

Good luck to you too!

[Scoots_Choco]

@Sevlec_Saaad

Actually, the changes don’t seem scary at all

Your opinion is in VERY strong contrast to your previous statement where you said:

@Sevlec_Saaad

my only fear is that this change may finally see the effective end of the Gila…

Which tells me that you were actually concerned about the “end of the Gila”.

That also tells me that you have no idea of what you’re talking about. The Gila would be one of the ship hulls (along with all others that have natural Hull bonuses to Resistances) that are LESS impacted by the change.

@Sevlec_Saaad

As for “freaking out”?? Might I suggest that your terminology is just a wee bit over the top? I was just hoping for a friendly conversation on the subject really.

As for “freaking out”, might I suggest you don’t pretend to know what you’re talking about and say things like being fearful of the “end of the Gila” if you can’t do the simple math that it takes to realize that the Gila actually comes out BETTER after this change compared to all other ship hulls that don’t share it’s innate Resistance bonuses.

[Tony_Cleaner]

The most effective and favorite PvE tank is active shield or armor repair. And he doesn’t care how much shield or armor, since it is just a buffer.

Most mission fittings are based on a minimum repair threshold hp per sec.
A decrease in resistance will raise this threshold which or
a) nothing will change, such as for bots and those who go through missions in afk, since there is usually a large margin of stability
b) make the passage of the mission less comfortable, but not impossible
c) make it necessary to replace cheap modules, for example, Gist-A with more expensive Gist-X and etc

in other words, I don’t see anything good, only the rise in price of dead-space modules and becoming more meaningless cheaper T2

[Sevlec_Saaad]

Well, I don’t pretend to have done the math about the innate ship hull bonuses. As with anyone playing Eve Online however, I can talk about my own experiences flying this ship. Might I gently suggest that perhaps my experience flying the Gila would afford my opinion at least a small amount of currency in this type of conversation, beyond the raw figures.
Anyway, I do appreciate your input regarding the relative hull bonuses and hopefully the Gila will maintain its position as a highly effective solo PVE ship.