What do you miss about Eve that is now gone?

[Mr_Epeen]

@Nevyn_Auscent

Which is A: Not RMT.

Oh boy

Mr Epeen

[MB_ThePhotographer]

It’s a RMT but at least a legal one.

[Mr_Epeen]

How does legal or not legal make any difference to the players? RMT is RMT.

Mr Epeen

[Celephis]

@Nevyn_Auscent

You can not buy meaningful amounts of SP like your example from CCP with cash. (Yes, I agree there are limited packs which I’m not fond of, but not liking something doesn’t make it P2W)

Yes you certainly can, only limitation is how much you want to spend. There was a player who spend $7000 worth of skill injectors… another time there was a guy spending $28 000 worth of skill injectors… So, yes in today’s EVE you can create character and overnight become highest skill point character in Eve universe…

You can however buy it with in game money, which means that cash does not matter, and it is not an advantage over someone who doesn’t spend cash.

This sentence doesn’t have any sense… sorry. The fact you can buy something for in game currency doesn’t mean it’s not P2W… You can buy in game currency for real money.

Also there is only a limited amount of SP that will be useful in any engagement.
And it’s also basically unheard of for 2 perfectly even and spent SP in the same place pilots to meet in a 1 on 1.

That was example showing a clear advantage. It doesn’t matter how low chance of it to happen in game is. It still can happen. The point of it was to indicate that buying SP change the percentage chance of winning encounter like this.

So no, there is no real advantage here, you are clutching at straws to try and back a clearly wrong argument. It is not P2W in EVE, not when all of the above is true.

You proves my point… you will never admit that you play game with P2W mechanics…it would be somehow uncomfortable?

Which is A: Not true, there are non harmful ways to do microtransactions that support the community & the game, and B: Assumes people are being ‘forced’ to do said microtransactions.

Really? Microtransactions doesn’t support community nor the game. The only entity they support are wallets of shareholders. The reasons you have microtransactions in games I already described, It Is to make more money from the same product. All microtransactions in paid to play games/sub based games are harmful. Because they diminish achievements in game… They usually allow you to obtain things for cash instead of earning them through gameplay… Like that other guy who posted recently that he reached 300mil SP constantly playing the game… and I said that this achievement today is worth nothing if any idiot can overnight buy 300 mil SP… but before time of SP injectors that would be great achievement. Or for example guy having amazing mount in some fantasy mmorpg… but he bought it in cash shop… so it’s just rubbish he didn’t earn. How great value that mount would have if he would get it as a reward for doing something extremely difficult…
Also it’s worth to mention that often companies concentrate much more on implementing monetization features in a game rather than actual features for a players to enjoy… they keep loosing subscribers and then what they do to solve that? Implement more monetization hoping to recover… never ending circle leading to games fading and becoming unplayable with time…

[MB_ThePhotographer]

Because it goes into CCP wallet, not some 3rd world countries. Run with this one all you want.

[Mr_Epeen]

@MB_ThePhotographer

Because it goes into CCP wallet

Oh good. CCP is ruining their own game instead of some third party doing it.

Back in the day, CCP was doing the right thing by fighting RMT. Now they are the RMTers. Run with that all you want.

Mr Epeen

[MB_ThePhotographer]

All I was talking about was plex. You said CCP is into rmt. To me, plex is CCP’s rmt. I have no problem with that.

Good luck in your quest!

[Nevyn_Auscent]

@Celephis

Yes you certainly can, only limitation is how much you want to spend. There was a player who spend $7000 worth of skill injectors… another time there was a guy spending $28 000 worth of skill injectors

You do know that those… assuming they are the examples I know of… were bought via in game isk right. So youve just proven its not P2W because they didnt pay.
And yes the fact you can buy it with in game currency is highly important as that is the distinction between P2W and Pay for convenience.

As for the rest, you are delusional if you think that microtransactions can only ever be harmful.

[Mr_Epeen]

@MB_ThePhotographer

All I was talking about was plex.

Read the last eight posts and say that again with a straight face. Why people insist on lying when everything they just said is right there for everyone to read escapes me.

Mr Epeen

[Nevyn_Auscent]

@Mr_Epeen

Why people insist on lying when everything they just said is right there for everyone to read escapes me.

You mean your currently unsourced assertion that you haven’t referenced about CCP selling Isk right?

[MB_ThePhotographer]

Vintage Burger King Commercial - Have it Your Way - 1974

[Mr_Epeen]

@Nevyn_Auscent

currently unsourced assertion

Your brain is broken. Log in to acct management.

Mr Epeen

[Nevyn_Auscent]

@Mr_Epeen

@Nevyn_Auscent

currently unsourced assertion

Your brain is broken. Log in to acct management.

Done that, still not seeing where CCP are selling Isk.
You might need to actually reference properly rather than toss vague accusations.

[Celephis]

@Nevyn_Auscent

You do know that those… assuming they are the examples I know of… were bought via in game isk right. So youve just proven its not P2W because they didnt pay.

Of course they paid with in game currency, no one knows for sure how they got this in game currency. But because you can buy in game currency for real money in such quantities and for ISK you can buy SP, that makes it pay to win. It doesn’t really matter how he did it. What matters is it can be done through real money. I can log in now , create fresh character and spend $28k(if I would be complete idiot) and get that fresh character to be most skilled character in a game…
How you can even give argument like this? It’s like saying that something is not microtransaction because it can be also bought with in game currency…Most of pay to win features all over the gaming industry are also available for in game currency.

And yes the fact you can buy it with in game currency is highly important as that is the distinction between P2W and Pay for convenience.

No its not… as I said again you buy in game currency with real money, are you even understand what I am writing? I kind of feel like trying to teach advanced math to 2-3 years old kid… Your brain simply doesn’t comprehend what I am saying…
Distinction between Pay to win and pay for convenience is what you buying, what is it’s purpose and how it was designed in a first place(as I already explained).

As for the rest, you are delusional if you think that microtransactions can only ever be harmful.

I think this conversation is over at that point. There are only two options.
One, you pretend do not understand what I wrote considering your idiotic arguments which has nothing to do with reality just to stick to your invented definitions to match your vision of the World… and EA/Activision/Bethesda for sure love you, they make billions from people like you.
Second. You really doesn’t understand and you are not intelligent enough to even make an attempt to do some research. There is plenty of resources around all you need to do is ability and willingness to read…

At that point I gave you enough clues… and I wasted huge amount of time on apparently knowledge resistant individual…

bye…

[Nevyn_Auscent]

@Celephis

no one knows for sure how they got this in game currency.

Actually yes we do.
They got it through running a gambling website and making money as the house. That’s how they did the 28k equivalent (Which also isn’t actually 28k equivalent because that’s valued at the worst plex exchange rate at the time, while large bundles you get to negotiate with CCP directly for a discount but that’s a non relevant point in this case.)

@Celephis

you buy in game currency with real money,

1. No you can’t.

2. Who cares? That’s not P2W, that’s Convenience to avoid grinding time.

3. No, you aren’t trying to teach advanced maths to a 3 year old, you are the 3 year old struggling to understand 1+1=2. In order for it to be Pay to Win, there must be a meaningful advantage over a non paying customer. If we ignore subscriptions you have not demonstrated any meaningful advantage. Sure if we take 2 perfectly equal pilots in every other aspect… In other words if we take an unrealistic scenario and ignore all the variables we can make a situation which we can pretend is pay to win, but given that the game has been going for over 15 years now, we already have pilots who are max skills in any given ship, therefore it is irrelevant if you can get them too, because it doesn’t give you an advantage over those people.

[Celephis]

@Nevyn_Auscent

@Celephis

you buy in game currency with real money,

1. No you can’t.

Yes you can, you don’t even know game you playing… Buy plex with real money-> sell plex for ISK

2. Who cares? That’s not P2W, that’s Convenience to avoid grinding time.

your ignorance is staggering…

Sure if we take 2 perfectly equal pilots in every other aspect…

you just confirmed what so badly you trying to defend…

the game has been going for over 15 years now, we already have pilots who are max skills in any given ship, therefore it is irrelevant if you can get them too, because it doesn’t give you an advantage over those people.

The fact that buying more SP doesn’t give you advantage over players who already owns them is just most retarded argument you could give here… If that would be true then there would be no pay to win at all in gaming industry cause in every game being online for a couple of weeks there are players who already get to the top or obtained best items, so according your broken thinking buying progress or top items for cash then wouldn’t be pay to win…

I think you just bought all your Intelligence attribute for real money somewhere instead of gaining it through experiences of life…that would explain your responses… Didn’t I said “bye” already? Even that seems to be for you too hard to understand.

[Nevyn_Auscent]

@Celephis

Yes you can, you don’t even know game you playing… Buy plex with real money-> sell plex for ISK

Is not buying isk for real money.
It’s buying plex for real money, and then trading that plex to another player who put time into earning that isk. This is important to distinguish between because that time involved means there is a limit of isk available for your plex. You can not just create isk out of thin air, if no-one wants to give you isk, plex can not turn into isk magically.

@Celephis

If that would be true then there would be no pay to win at all in gaming industry

You do get that most games people refer to as P2W you can literally buy items that are not available through regular gameplay right? Like Gold ammo which is just superior to anything available in game, or permanent stat buffs that you can only get through the cash shop.
Given your above post it appears you are lacking in knowledge on this topic.

When you talk about ‘buying progress’ you are talking about pay for convenience.

P.S. You saying bye does not forbid me from addressing your flawed arguments, you can control yourself from replying if you want to say bye, but you get no say in if I am allowed to reply.

[Dravick_Afterthought]

@Nevyn_Auscent

P.S. You saying bye does not forbid me from addressing your flawed arguments, you can control yourself from replying if you want to say bye, but you get no say in if I am allowed to reply.

Well said. The common forum tactic (not just in Eve) of saying “well I’m right because you’re not intelligent enough to understand my argument, so I’m declaring myself the winner, donning my laurel-leaves and departing” is far too common. If you believe in your point of view you should be able to back it up with something more than just your own interpretation of the issue.

[Celephis]

@Nevyn_Auscent

@Celephis

Yes you can, you don’t even know game you playing… Buy plex with real money-> sell plex for ISK

Is not buying isk for real money.
It’s buying plex for real money, and then trading that plex to another player who put time into earning that isk. This is important to distinguish between because that time involved means there is a limit of isk available for your plex. You can not just create isk out of thin air, if no-one wants to give you isk, plex can not turn into isk magically.

Are you for real? This is how most of pay to win games works. It’s very simple, I will spell it for you : YOU CAN BUY SP FOR YOUR REAL MONEY and since SP = progress and advantage it’s Pay to win…

@Celephis

If that would be true then there would be no pay to win at all in gaming industry

@Nevyn_Auscent

You do get that most games people refer to as P2W you can literally buy items that are not available through regular gameplay right? Like Gold ammo which is just superior to anything available in game, or permanent stat buffs that you can only get through the cash shop.
Given your above post it appears you are lacking in knowledge on this topic.

You seems to read P2W literally as it was 20-25 years ago… You know that life went forward and companies also changed their tactics to make people like you to not even know how they sell you advantage in games?

@Nevyn_Auscent

When you talk about ‘buying progress’ you are talking about pay for convenience.

When I talk about what you call “buying progress” I talk about pay to win. It’s rather obvious because this is what pay to win is.

@Nevyn_Auscent

P.S. You saying bye does not forbid me from addressing your flawed arguments, you can control yourself from replying if you want to say bye, but you get no say in if I am allowed to reply.

No, for you they are “flawed” cause of your lack of understanding the topic and not ability to do actually any research…you just slept under the ice for a last 20 years… and you live in the era of chinese pay to win games from that time
So far you didn’t provide any real and sensible argument, you just playing ping pong game. Just wondering how much they pay for being fanboy in EvE? Every game got people like you who will defend company no matter what just by being complete ignorant and completely ignoring all actual arguments and being not able to respond to them in any other way than just by pretending to not understand them.

So far if anyone would use your definitions of pay to win then there would be no pay to win at all in modern pay to play games or sub based games but that is obviously not true considering amount of reports and videos created in recent years about the topic… But obviously what can you know if you are not interested in actually learning anything…

[Celephis]

@Dravick_Afterthought

@Nevyn_Auscent

P.S. You saying bye does not forbid me from addressing your flawed arguments, you can control yourself from replying if you want to say bye, but you get no say in if I am allowed to reply.

Well said. The common forum tactic (not just in Eve) of saying “well I’m right because you’re not intelligent enough to understand my argument, so I’m declaring myself the winner, donning my laurel-leaves and departing” is far too common. If you believe in your point of view you should be able to back it up with something more than just your own interpretation of the issue.

Haha fanboys club?
I can say whenever I want “bye” when I realize that I talk to the wall… It’s common in real life And no, I am not providing my own interpretation of the point. It’s common knowledge assuming that anyone stick his nose out of this game for a while and actually do some research around the industry and have a bit of IQ to understand how companies design features in a games and for what purpose…