What happened to Eve?
It died an inglorious death.
But everyone is still in denial, just give them time…
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No, that is the difference between being PVP-focused, and PVP-exclusive. Focusing on one aspect as the dominant aspect, doesnt mean that no other aspect can exist.
Take a car for example. We recognize that the cars main attribute, main focus, is the fact that it can be driven from point A to point B. It is a transportation vehicle.
So why arent all cars exclusively like an F1 racing car? No Trunk space, no Radio, no roof, no windshield wipers, no ability to drive around more than a single person. Thats because the extra amenities may not be the most important, most basic reason to own a car, but they are still required. The fact that we recognize the most important aspect of a car, doesnt take away from all the other requirements that we look for in a car.
This seems to be a complete misconception from you.
I never said this is the case, nor do I see anyone else here saying that. So I fail to understand why you bring this up, when no one is arguing that PVPers only do PVP and PVEers only do PVE.
Infact, the argument that many of us are bringing, are the exact opposite. And this is a misconception from you. We understand that PVE and PVP are both intrinsically tied together. It is the people who want a completely safe hisec, who want a section of space where ganking and non-consentual PVP is banned, who are advocating for players to be either PVP or PVEers. They are the ones who are advocating to create a space where, if one chooses to, they can only engage in PVE and not PVP.
This would lead to players who are Just PVEers, and the misconception that you wrote about, is the actual goal of quite a few players who voice their opinions about this.
Another mischaracterization, and misconception on your part. I never said PVEers dont spend money on EVE. The distinction I was making was between 5000 new players who are Alpha, against 1000 older players who are more likely than not, going to be omega. And by definition, Older Omega players are necessarily going to be more likely to have spent a lot more than new, alpha players.
Sure, but the answer is not to alienate the older players by introducing mechanics that break the core aspect of EVE. Which was my point.
You made quite a few misconceptions while trying to point out supposed misconceptions that I had made, but okay.
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They ran out of people willing to pay 15 bucks a month for it and are now going after the isk you paid for in the hopes you will have to buy more.
I still pay multiple subs, and I am still enjoying EVE after 14 years of playing. Those who PLEX to sub their toons are no longer playing a game, they have turned it into their job…
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I could easily argue that PVE is the dominate aspect. Actually the data supports that PVE is the dominate part of the game with PVP having a strong influence in gameplay. All we have to do is look at the economic report and you can see that most months more isk worth of materials is mined than destroyed and 2 to 4 times more end products are produced than are destroyed.
So logic dictates we make a lot more stuff than we blow up. Thus it is far more logical to conclude Eve is actually a PVE game with a heavy PVP influence. I know you want to argue that its a pvp game. I get it. I use to do the same. It is a pvp game, but pvp is not near as important in Eve as want to believe. So, no its not a misconception on my part, it is a misconception on your part. In reality it is a massive sandbox strategy game in which both pve and pvp play very heavy roles. PVP is basically a large isk sink.
You imply that we must have one extreme or another. Either we must be a pvp game or a pve game and those are actually the games that do the worse. My point was that a majority of the people who play mmos like a mix of pvp and pve in their gameplay to various degrees. Very few all pvp or all pve.
I was not advocating for that and honestly hisec is more dangerous than null. In null i know who my friends are and i have intel channels intel maps, comms, and all sorts of tools. Unless you are using needlejack or wormholes( which we close religiously), im going to know you are coming 15-20 jumps out. Im going to have time to get all the info on what your flying, who your flying with, what your killboard stats are, how you fit your ships, and what color underwear you are wearing today and i wont miss a ratting tick while doing it.
In highsec ive had failed ganks doing a guristas refuge in an assault frig. i have had can flippers, loot stealers, bumpers, and my main cant even go to high sec because we have no less than 2 wardecs all the time. Hell, hisec is 10x more dangerous than null.
So lets not get on the whole " carebears want safe and you should be at risk anywhere in the game" Yeah anywhere except the big blue donut where you have a fleet of caps on standby to hotdrop that cruiser gang that tackles one of your rorqs that left his core on to long. Hisec bears are about the only group that dont have a safe space.
Have spent is the key there not will spend. It is a well known fact that all MMOs need a constant stream of new blood. Those MMOs have to appeal to that new blood. Eve has never been good at appealing to the masses but it was good, for awhile, at player retention. But the last few years, that has changed as the company has become more profit driven and less quality and player driven. New players need to replace those lost vets that use to spend money. So the game needs to appeal to drawing new players not living in yesteryear so a couple thousand bitter vets can talk about the days of old.
Who is introducing such mechanics? My entire post was around the decline of quality content and passion( from the dev team) in eve. You seem to be arguing a strawman that you created from another thread?
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FFS. Not another one.
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I was going to type out a spiel on what CCP should fix, but I seriously don’t care anymore.
I would be very grateful for your stuff, friend.
Trying to relive memories is rarely a good thing. I know, I came back too after a couple of years. The sov map had changed, lol. The people I knew have mostly left, the ones I brought back with me to the game have left again. The experience that is Eve, the game, the box, the people, it all changes constantly. I for one love triglavian content, and I frequent other parts of space much more frequently, met new people.
I guess I really do love Eve, yes, warts and all.
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EVE forum.
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Pro Tip - they don’t give AF about you [or me]. They are profitable and they don’t need us in their current model. Their idea of content updates is mainly nerfs to existing systems.
It indisputably is a PvP-focused game. Virtually everything interesting and meaningful about EVE comes from interaction and competition with other players, and playing EVE without that interaction would get boring extremely quickly.
PS: remember that mining, industry, market manipulation, etc, are all PvP activities.
Or better yet get rid of the rabbits and throw two lions in the pit and get rid of the rabbits and resources.
Nonsense. A major part of EVE’s PvP system is competitive capitalism. Getting rid of industry and only supporting combat PvP would mean destroying most of EVE’s depth and killing the game.
Hisec bears are about the only group that dont have a safe space.
Nonsense. Highsec farmers have relatively safe space because the game mechanics protect them. Nullsec players have extremely dangerous space and only survive through massive investments of effort and resources to overcome the inherent danger of their space and generate a level of conditional safety for the group that controls an area.
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Very accurate and 100% correct.
There’s a few more like that as well. After including their loyal supporters, there’s about a dozen total who do the same thing religiously. For a list of names, just check their likes.
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As a newcomer, sometimes looks as some guys here are developers, not fan boys, supporting a very non sandbox point of view.
Ahh, i remember this desperate argument. Lets redefine PVP so that we can say any multiplayer game is a pvp game. That is not really how it works.
That.wasnt.really.a.suggestion???
Did you just start playing yesterday or is it your turn to tow the party line? Null sec players have extremely dangerous space, LOL. You did read the part where i said ive spent most of my very long Eve career in null sec right? That nonsense might work on a noob but i know its BS. Im more likely to get ganked on jita undock than i am running a haven in some backwater system in null.
It’s not redefining anything, it’s indisputable fact. If you are doing industry activities what determines the success or failure of your actions? NPCs or competition with other players? Contrast this with, say, a mission where success or failure is determined by your ability to fight NPCs without any interaction with other players.
Null sec players have extremely dangerous space, LOL.
This is also indisputable fact no matter how you try to pretend otherwise. Nullsec is inherently dangerous and you can be attacked at any time by another player with no consequences or NPCs to defend you. Highsec is inherently much safer as CONCORD protects you from the vast majority of potential aggression. The only reason you’re more likely to die in highsec is that in nullsec the players have invested immense amounts of continuous effort to secure their personal empires against outside threats, while highsec players fly around obliviously pretending that PvP doesn’t exist.
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No its not. Things are not facts because you say they. I play casino games on my phone. I interact with other players playing slots. By your definition when i spin the slots in a casino with other players i am pvping. Stop being ridiculous.
Its called a standard definition. The standard definition of pvp is players in combat with other players. Stop with the ridiculous " im going to change the definition of pvp to prove my point" its desperate and petty.
Did someone crown you Emperor? Because you sure do like to decree things. " This is an indisputable fact!" . No its not indisputable. If it were indisputable, i wouldnt be disputing the claim that its fact or that you actually know what a fact is. You keep on decree things though and ill keep on LOLing at them.
Do you actually play this game or are you like an intern troll that is just here for the semester? Concord prevents NOTHING ZERO ZILCH NADA. Concord is a punishment tool not a protection tool. Have you ever seen the Goonsquad running around high sec in their dessies suiciding people in the hopes they can kill them before Concord shows up and spanks them all the way back to the dock? Punishment system, not protection.
I can mostly agree with that. Though i could hop in a pvp ship and go flying randomly around null and 95 out of 100 people will go hide in the dock until i pass because its easier in eve to go hide in a dock than it is to actually fight. This is especially true now that you can dock in literally every system that is friendly to you. Null has never been safer than it is right now.
No, because success or failure on a slot machine is determined purely by RNG without any interaction with other players. You buy a spin, roll the RNG dice, and get a reward. That has nothing to do with PvP.
The standard definition of pvp is players in combat with other players.
That “standard definition” is nonsensical in a game where significant player conflict is resolved through diplomacy, being better at capitalism, etc. The correct definition is to look at what the words actually mean:
PvP = Player vs. Player. Two or more players act in opposition, with success determined by how they do against their opponent(s).
PvP = Player vs. Environment. One or more players play against the game world/NPCs/etc, with success determined purely by their own actions within those game rules.
EVE industry is indisputably PvP. Your success or failure is determined by how well you compete against all of the other industry players, not by your own actions against the NPC world.
If it were indisputable, i wouldnt be disputing the claim that its fact or that you actually know what a fact is.
The fact that the earth is not flat is indisputable fact, and yet idiot flat earthers keep insisting otherwise. Your stubborn insistence on defending delusional arguments does not make them valid.
Concord is a punishment tool not a protection tool.
Do you actually play this game? CONCORD is punishment, but the 100% guaranteed loss of your ship for committing a criminal act in highsec is a massive deterrent. As a result most potential aggression never happens because the threat decides that it isn’t worth the price.
This is especially true now that you can dock in literally every system that is friendly to you.
That’s nice. In highsec you can dock in literally every system in highsec, and CONCORD will deter the vast majority of threats even if you don’t bother to dock. So how exactly is nullsec safer when it has fewer options to dock and hide?
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It also prevents nothing in nullsec. So, why nullsec is safer now?
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Then it would already have you