What if people are not afk cloak & just enjoying thier combat recon…
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@Shipwreck_Jones ou made a lenghty post about drone bunys, and i would just like to add that;
i see vindicaters as a stepping stones into t2/t3 dronebunys becouse:
the damage of a vindicator might be equal to that of t2/t3…
BUT the main damage comes from drones and t2/t3 can refit into logi and have better tank.
wich makes them the ideal choice as dronebunny in incursions.
@Ramona McCandless
no i dont want “a super ship that cant be destroyed.”
i want an eve where 10 cruisers cant destroy 1 capital - by the simple fact that they are outranging the capital ships weapon system.
@Solstice_Projekt I see your back and shitposting offtopic… zz. Did not make this thread for you to sit and judge peoples spelling and shittalking with your friends in… sorry, the world is not your oyster.
@Beast_of_Revelations yeah i could tell that the majority of the forum people hate caps and dont want them in-game, its a shame.
CCP might take their views for “the majority” and perhaps this is what has happend… troll factorys like them in here pumping the forums of shitposts.
What i will say thou; 100 lokis with arty is more op then that of 100 proteus or 100 tengu ever was.
And yes, more nerfs are coming to caps, what have been spoken about is that all capital ships across the board will have a nerf to Ehp - thats why ccp has introduced the now “op” implant set nirvana - which will soon not be op, they will ofc still be mandatory for supers… but they wont be as op as now.
one more example of this Nerf Online is mining rocks, which has gone from 300k to 1k m3.
again ccp thinks non-afk “mining-raids” is equal to “i want to move more on the grid, so ccp should nerf rock size”
(which i dont blame ccp for, but the forum community)
as demonstrated by the level of shitposting and spite i have recived in this thread, its quite obvious in the eve
- whomever screams the highest, wins the argument.
or whomever brings the most friends to “agree” and gang up on people wins.
@Rocket_Hellfire
at first i thought it would be a bad idea to buff all ehp across the board, but then you put out your arguments…
and i hafto agree, im a novice pvp pilot and when i have tried to “get into pvp”, i end up losing my ship within seconds… like “blap dead”… i dont have any time to react or deploy counter measures at all… last time i had dual armor reps, and they did not even finish a cycle before i was dead. lol.
i feel like i brought the ship out to pvp, i was ok with losing it.
it would have been MORE ok and even fun to lose that ship, if i got something out from it…
As is now, the mentality is in most pvp “if you cant insta blap the ship dont bother”, so it might be good for all to have prolonged pvp fights, and logi would sure be needed, even in small pvp fights and not just “appriciated”.
further more,(just spitballing here)
i think ccp should make logi,either, a) streight up give a damage bonus aswell as hp to its friends, or b) calulate (for zkillboard only!) the given ehp as damage output.
or somerthing of the like!
in the current “skilling is just a means” pvp kills, it dont even count anyone else then highest damage, sending a very strong messege to pvp logis.
@Beast_of_Revelations yes, ratting capships are vurnable to only cruisers and frigates…
and this is why i said that about only black ops (battleships) should be “allowed”/have ship-power/cpu to cloaky camp systems.
this will atleast make the hunters have a somewhat comparable isk ratio on the grid, compareble to a carrier or dred…
if ccp wants to balance this iskratio further towards bbalance, they would make it so a blackops could only bridge in x amount of mass (much like how wormholes act)
thus to bridge in firepower to kill a carrier = x firepower = 1 blops. firepower to kill a super = y firepower = (?) blops.
in your post that begins with the “wall of text” meems, you also link a “cheat sheet” about how ship works.
and in point3, it says the smaller the ship lesser the range.
this is incorrect when it comes to dreds vs lokis and this is the entire point i have been trying to make about haw-dreads vs lokis.
and this fact completley demolish your smoll vs large ships diagram.
subjective thoughts of my own.
Caps should be an “I-win” button vs cruisers… and caps with heavy neut should also be a “i-win” button vs frigates.
caps should not be an “i-win” button vs many battleships.
@Shipwreck Jones Yes, its not just about d&d, time and effort should be reflected in the rewards.
this is a case of balance.
@Oakley_Hunter
if people are not >afk< cloak and just enjoying their combat recon…
i approve.
let them be cloaked up 24/7 365, for all i care (but id get suspicious of bot activity…)
but im pretty comfortable in saying that afk cloaking in a frigate 24/7 is a game breaker for so many reasons.
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How many cruisers do you think it should take then?
@Ramona_McCandless
i dont know… i want an eve where the isk loss ratio in that fight will be 50/50.
when the dred dies, it should have taken out its own worth.
now, when the dred dies, it has taken out 0 isk.
and this is not acceptable in a capital vs cruiser fight.
Why? Im genuinely interested in understanding what people who like Caps as boring bricks get this idea that they “should” be some way.
What are you basing this on?
Do you have an example in history or fiction that matches how you see Captial ships ideally in EvE so I can at least have an idea what kind of craft you think they should be?
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Have you ever thought you are using the wrong tool for the job?
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time and effort should reflect rewards.
@Scarlet_Starfire i know that fighting a loki gang = no dred/capital ships.
Hence this post, about current flaws in the toolbox.
the only way to make a loki gang to back off is to either blueball them or get a bigger amount of lokis.
which is … quite boring game mechanics.
I dont see how that answers my question.
But given SP and ISK can both be bought, where is the time and effort there?
If Caps should be as monumentally hard to kill as the scaling of SP and Cost(Isk) rises, then only the richest players would be able to operate them?
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That sounds like a poorly disguised isk tanking argument as frequently used by people who lose expensive ships to many cheaper ships.
now, when the dred dies, it has taken out 0 isk.
Are you having trouble applying damage, being outranged or are the Loki’s outrepping the DPS?
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Are 100 Lokis more or less expensive? And how long does it take to train 100 Lokis?
Im going to assume the OP will consider the training to be at the same time and not consecutive, so that would require arbitration.
Capital ships are essentially fleet ships, smaller ships in the fleet should deal with the other fleets small ships whilst capitals deal with the larger ones.
As for being fair in the real world, how much does an anti tank mine cost compared to the tank.
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@Jonah_Gravenstein “Are you having trouble applying damage, being outranged or are the Loki’s outrepping the DPS?”
all 3 of the above.
@Ramona_McCandless
“But given SP and ISK can both be bought, where is the time and effort there?”
rl effort and time spend to make rl $ to spend on “fun”.
and your other question … its quite a silly question, aimed to troll further.
why would a single person train into 100 lokis?
lol.
also, lokis have 3 uses, links damage and logi.
all with diffrent train time ofc.
@Scarlet_Starfire
a loki gang can instablap any ships that is not capital ship.
a loki gang can tear down a capital ship without it even hitting them.
wouldnt it be nice AND fair AND balanced, if a capital ships could instablap a loki?
Right, so the higher RL income a person has equates to their ability to use your projected Capitals. Why would you price peoole out of something you feel is aspirational?
No it was directed to Jonah, not you. We use humour in our exchanges. It facilitates communication well within small groups.
Are you able to provide an example of the kind of unit you want EvE caps to be?
You must have some idea to base your ideal end result of this think tank on.
yeah, i am sorry you dident tag him before you wrote to him…
and wrote it after the things you wrote to me(?)
anyways, you should not troll then play dumb when you get cought, its not really working for you.
and YES… this is essentialy how the world works.
the more you earn the more you can spend on fun.
dont blame me for the worlds financial system.
Than a singular dreadnought, about 20x more expensive based on hull cost.
EG Revelation is 1.6 billion, Naglfar is 1.42 billion, Moros is 1.48 billion and a Phoenix is 1.5 billion
Loki is 315 million.
5 Loki hulls cost near enough the same as a dreadnought.
I’m not taking into account modules and subsystems.
or skill point loss.
and i dont want to get into the finer details, becouse its offtopic.
the only thing that is around topics is the fact that a dread cannot kill 1 loki.
either its out of range or its not hitting the loki, either way, projective damage is 0.
I literaly hit Reply to his comment, but whatever.
Right, so you do realise this will concentrate cap ownership within only the richest alliances because they know they van obliterate any other cap with their wallet, yes?
And you want it so subcaps cant hurt those caps, yes?
Also why are you avoiding the question I ask each time: Do you have an example of the kind of unit you envisage capitals to be in EvE from any other source?
Edit: looks like I hit reply to topic by mistake, that first time sorry there, mia culpa
Real world example.
When dreadnoughts ruled the waves, they couldn’t twat a cruiser either, big guns move slowly, small ships move quickly.
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To Jonah:
So in an Isk vs Isk comparison, the Lokis are of more value.
And though we can accept SP differences, maybe even weighing against Loki, there is a time/RL money sink in either 100 people or 99 alts and one person that is literally 100 times greater just to launch the fleet.
Yeah Im kinda manuevering in that direction. Problem is, Real World Dreads are just Battleships, and Battlecruisers are dreads with less armour and more speed.
Not that there are any Battleships currently in commission, the last one built being launched in 1944 and the last one in service being decommissioned in the early 90’s.
A type 45 Destroyer would make a mess of one if someone was dumb enough to try it on.