Yep the game has changed and will again. WHat a lot of vets forget is that they themselves did not have all the relevant SP and the challenge was to make it work until then. Had not amassed the billions or even trillions of Isk. So now the game feels to easy. The game will close up one fine day. Just not today and from where I sit not any time soon either.
I suspect a lot of bittervet talk is just rose tinted. The past is always âbetterâ. Never mind if it genuinely was.
And thereâs another phenomenon alongside the rose tinting. People like to think that they have gotten somewhere and want to hang on to that sense, and the best way to hang onto it and feel that it cannot be surpassed is to feel that one was around at the the best time to have gotten anywhere.
So a sense that âthe game will never be as good againâ is really just a mental ploy to capture oneâs greatness and convince oneself that nothing that comes after can supersede it.
whats wrong with eating pets??
I say that lack of accessible content is killing the game.
Iâm not sure if itâs correct to say that EVE is dying. But it is obvious that the number of active players has decreased significantly over the past few years. About a fifth, more often a quarter less players (32k vs 48+k players) is a clear factual shrinkage. On the other hand, this is significantly more than when I first played EVE at the end of 2006.
Nevertheless, I would agree that EVE had and still has problems with balancing. There have always been players who, like CPP itself, wanted EVE to be primarily a PVP game, which it really isnât, because PVP is only part of the game, and you can simply opt out of it if you donât feel like it or donât want to PLEX the impending losses. CCP has a good reason to want as much PVP as possible, because the game is constantly pouring out value in the form of ore, ISK (mission etc.) and item drops. This threatens to create galloping inflation, which is combated by means of âSinkâ. Ammunition consumption, ship losses, âtaxesâ etc. are the sink in the game, which is intended to keep inflation in check.
As for the PVP fans, there has always been an easy way to experience more PVP content, for example in 0.0 space, Wormhole space, Faction Wars, etc. for some years now. But surprisingly, for some reason this is always not approved enough; âŚand that also has always been like that.
But in my opinion, the real problems with EVE are of a completely different nature.
I usually play solo, at least most the time, because whenever Iâve played with others in the past, EVE has a tendency to degenerate into âworkâ. And I mean literally âworkâ in the most primal sense, like, âwe need to defend xyz for some more hours todayâ, âwe need more corp mining this weekâ, âwe need more players for roaming tonightâ, âthe corp wants to achive xyzâ.
The issue with that? EVE is just a game!
When I work, I get paid for it. And I get paid with real money, not buttons, which I can then use to pay my rent, buy food, go on vacation, etc. pp.
But CCP nor a corp pays me with real money for playing EVE all day fulfilling âdutiesâ and âgoalsâ, because CCP simply offers a game with EVE Online, for which I pay money in order to be able to play it nd have some fun when I feel to have some time for that.
And if Iâd rather watch a movie on Netflix in the evening, then Iâll do that, regardless of whether itâs corp mining, roaming, or whatever else might be going on in EVE.
And I also know from reliable source that this is exactly how it is for other players as well. EVE is an MMOG, with multiplayer activities whenever it is individually prefered, and otherwise also a single player game in a multiplayer environment, in which I skill my own personal skills for my style of play and do not share a common group skill set with others nor get play for spending extra hours instead of taking a nap.
A side effect of this is, that if you do not want to invest a lot of real money in PLEX, do not enjoy certain ways of playing, or only want to spend only little time with EVE, large parts of the game are not available at all, as well as, all âgroup activitiesâ in Corps always have a âevil tendencyâ to degenerate into real âworkâ, for which no one will get paid, as in real life, but has to pay with real money instead (dollars/euros/etc.).
And as a result, 99% of the players I have ever met in EVE since 2006 have not played for years at this time. Their real life seems to have more to offer than duties in EVE! And about myself I can tell, I only play every some years, very irregularly, for a few months at a time and then quit again for some time, cause my real life tells me there is more than just EVE. And every each time I come back, I realize, that once again some âcontentâ has sort of disappeared, cause it is no longer convienient or available along with the efforts I would be willing to undertake.
For example, due to the âPlanetary Interactionâ cartel, which, under various names, imposes 20-25% taxes on pretty much all the entire High Sec, PI-skills have actually become pretty much useless. But this issue is simple counter ⌠by not to having any PI skills, because it has become pointless to use skillpoints for it, when PI does no longer cover the costs and effort of doing PI. The some milllion in instalations and time and effort in maintaing PI has along with the crazy taxes a negative outcome in ISK for a long time to come once an installation is started.
Now one could try PI in Low Sec and risk even more ISK (ships) by doing so, but that makes it even ever more pointless than it is already is at this time.
Now one could still argue, âtake the risk!â and âgo low!â or âgo 0.0!â for PI. But for the average player, we all know, that is just a waste of time, ships and ISK in the same way many of the âHigh Sec PvP Playersâ donât show up in low or 0.0 most the time for reason, if ever at all.
( Thatâs why they are called âHigh Sec PvP Playersâ of course! âŚmakes sense⌠)
Now I have to admit, I am not into PI for real, and I tried just to take a look; not for making ISK in game. â Actually if I need ISK, I PLEX, I admit. â On the other hand PI is one of the many aspects in the game where the content is actually shrinking for the average player, that do also have a real life, besides playing EVE for some hours a week. In this regard, I only want to point out PI as just one of many examples of shrinking useful content for the âaverage playerâ. It is sadly a fact that content is shrinking one way or another in many regards from COSMOS to PI to POS to STANDINGS and whatnot else.
And in my opinion, itâs a pity!
So there certainly is a number of issues in EVE, some always had been there, and still is to this day in some way (war dec issues etc.), that over time also might take account in the decline in active player base, while EVE ages and might find it harder to attract new players for more than just taking a look what playing EVE might be likeâŚ
And while CCP tries to sink automatically generated ingame values (ORE/ISK/Items), to counter inflation as a consequence of endless ingame wealth sources, EVE has over time somewhat become shorter in content, cause new content for the average player has not been added, â most of the newer content is in fact not really useful for the average player who can âplayâ at best 3-4 hours game time per day, perhaps even only a few hours per weekend â while EVE is at the same time becoming increasingly a sink in regards to âreal world moneyâ.
EVE has never been as expensive to play as it is at this time!
( ⌠by the way, my first Dominix did cost me around 60 Million in 2007. These days one hardly gets a BC for that amount of ISK⌠)
So as of today, the average player actually has(!) to PLEX at least some amount in addition to Omega time, to have enough ISK at hand to play the few hours per day or week, not to speak about random ship losses, most can hardly afford to compensate just by playing the âgameâ.
And shop offers like âWeekend Packageâ (2 days Omega + some PLEX) reflects exactly that scenario as part of the new reality in EVE.
There obviously is efforts undertaken by CCP to add sort of ânew contentâ, that sadly in most part remains for reason of practicability unavailable for players who play at best a very few hours at once, each time they log in, while the price tag of playing EVE in terms of real world money has significantly increased over the years and the availability of âplayable contentâ for the âaverage playerâ has been slowly but steadily decreasing at the same time.
And I would agree, that this development in all its many details might not increase the player base ever again to something above 46.000 players on a daily base.
Being said so, I still wouldnât agree that EVE is dying! But EVE is obviously on a steady decline and doesnât have its best years still lying ahead âŚ
Itâs a pity! But it is what it isâŚ
1 Like
New COSMOS content was added like two months ago. Unfortunately, the UniWiki project to publish the ongoing research project into poorly documented COSMOS content was shuttered around the same time.
1 Like
Well, since faction standings for a High Sec POS is no longer needed, the deminishing standing returns when doing COSMOS renders it kind of useless these days, since there is no goal, but only the downside in regards to negative standing towards the opposing faction when doing COSMOS.
I didnât want to point out every little detail in my already very long posting, but that was what I wanted to point out when I did mention COSMOS along with the increasing shortage in content over the years for the average players in small (weekend) corps.
COSMOS was of course great expirience when the a faction standing for POS in High Sec was mandatory. Now it has become more kind of a burden, imhoâŚ
POS farming is more of a thing now especially with the new hisec officer rats and changes to things that spawn diamond rats like Edencom and the insurgency/stronghold thing. Not really talked about because people have taken all the low hanging fruit and you just need one POS per system.
Honestly I think itâs a bug how farming with a POS doesnât impact standings, but it is an interesting use case.
1 Like
I donât have the answer for how to help, or further hurt EVE.
I do know however, that as long as everyone, and i do mean EVERYone, has their own âopinionâ of how EVE should be shaped, nobody will ever have a decent idea for how to make EVE better and less âdyingâ
2 Likes
I think itâs because of the players that it is dying because they do not send enough money to CCP and do not buy enough PLEX. The more PLEX is sold the less EVE will die.
AgreedâŚbutâŚthis works both ways. That simple fact seems to be forgotten all while arguing the point itself.
One cannot ask for freedom or equality, then chastise another for exercising the same right and having a difference of opinion. The truth is, itâs not about any of that. Itâs about special recognition for a certain demographic (be it play style, preference, whateverâŚin game and out) simply because. On the other hand, one should not play a game primarily centered on player interaction, both positive and negative with a focus on conflict, then complain and expect it to change simply because they dislike conflict and deem it so.
We all (most anyways) know what Eve is and what itâs about. Itâs raw conflict in many forms. Those who cannot take the heatâŚwell, you know the rest.
1 Like
Unfortunataely, CCP has become a group of sell-outs with Devs that have likely never actually played the game, much less been in it for the long term.
I think I just said this in another post before I got a chance to read this. No one has been able to come up with any kind of fix from either side and the player base has a lot more minds available to them to think about this than CCP does. I donât blame anyone, and I blame us al! 
2 Likes
That is not necessarily true, though. Concurrency doesnât actually tell you âhow many people are playing Eveâ. All it tells you is how many are playing at a particular moment, and that can vary widely according to how long people are logging in for on average.
So, for example, 40K people logging in for 6 hours a day would give you the same concurrency as 20K people logging in for 12 hours a dayâŚbecause the 40K would be twice as many people on average logging in for half as much time.
Because of this, you cannot really compare concurrency figures on a pro rata basisâŚas many tend to do.
3 Likes
I would disagree with that, because ranges of about 18,000 to around 34,000 these days, depending on the time of day, versus ranges of about 26,000 to a little over 48,000 actually tells a picture.
Even if this story tells that there are fewer players, many of whom have been multiboxing, that doesnât mean that the same number of individual players have simply stopped multiboxing, but that there are in fact fewer players. The reason is simple, one can only multibox to a certain extent and not everyone did/does that in the first place.
There obviously is fewer players and the numbers clearly reflect that, even if there is some uncertainty about exactly how many fewer âindividualsâ ultimately lead to the numbers turning out like so, ⌠there is obviously less individuals involved in playing EVE these days.
1 Like
eve will never die, its a great game 
3 Likes
I agree with that 
Eve diminishing base is not unique to Eve. After the pandemic in games that I play aside from Eve has experienced this same thing. During the pandemic. People were trapped in their homes. Work from home was the norm for most of the world. Here in the United states as elsewhere. Companies are now demanding that workers return to the office.
We can discuss why companies are demanding this, in my opinion, stupidity. But in the end it is happening. Leaving people with less time to indulge in games. When one spends a great amount of time commuting to and from work. Most people get home and decide, I would rather veg in front of the TV. Than to fire up the PC and play.
Is Eve dying. Personally I do not think so. It is going through the same issue that many games are facing today. The challenge is to ride it out. Continue to attract new players and woo old players to return.
At some point the numbers will stabilize and hopefully grow. But that will be up to the marketing team to advertise on as many platforms and media outlets as possible. The devs to create content that people will enjoy and management not screw the pooch. Yeah, I know the last almost invariably happens even in the best of times.
Though real world challenges are going to make this harder in the near future. Presuming trump carries out his threatened tariff war with China. To a lesser extent with Europe and incredibly Canada, But I have confidence that CCP will be able to ride this out and come out the other side still kicking.
In the end Eve is not dying. Just facing challenges that just about every gaming studio is facing at the moment.
Well, EVE may not be âdyingâ but itâs definitely getting old and probably senile. Just like every other MMO thatâs over 10 years old. I canât find any old MMOs that are âslowly growingâ rather than slowly dying.
Older games typically settle into a stable decline with a small fraction of their old playerbase and a smaller team of devs. CCP has done better than most in that theyâve kept a fairly full-sized development team active for all this time. (Although of course itâs open to debate what theyâve achieved with said team.)
Recent EVE login numbers are more indicative of free acounts, multiboxers, bots, and the fact that EVE doesnât kick players offline after X minutes of inactivity, as most MMOs do. Itâs not about âgrowing popularityâ.
The only way to shake this âslow lossâ trend is to introduce new and interesting updates. However CCPâs game updates have begun to resemble more âtheme parkâ game updates - short term events and changes that donât make lasting differences to the way the EVE is played.
Fundamental change is needed if EVE is going to stave off the steady decline. Multiple long-term players have written about this - hereâs one example:
Some headings from it:
- Players have solved the game
- The game gives players no reason to fight
- There is little for experienced players to aspire to in the game
- New players are at a significant disadvantage in almost every part of the game
Each of those headings could well be an entire topic on itsâ own, and others as well. CCP is trying to address some of these issues with tiny tweaks (ESS, Drills, Merc Dens for instance to âgive players reasons to fightâ). Those tweaks are relatively tiny, because CCP canât afford to rock the boat - they donât want to lose large chunks of the paying player base if they change too much.
Personally I believe EVE is going to need more fundamental changes than CCP has been making. And those changes need to be based on a better understanding of why players play and what EVE really is, rather than on relatively minor tweaks to existing systems.
2 Likes
What i find disturbing in this regards is the introduction of âEVE Fontierâ. Many new concepts happening there, but this is not tied to the original game and might cannibalize on the already niche userbase.