What is Causing EVE to Die?

[MB_ThePhotographer]

I know how to take a punch in game as well as in rl.

When do we hook up?

[Zaera_Keena]

Careful what you wish for

[MB_ThePhotographer]

Cheap memes mean nothing.

Who would break first? I’ve learned a lot of tricks.

[MB_ThePhotographer]

Off topic. How to piss off a women 101.

Queen - Fat Bottomed Girls (Official Video)

[MB_ThePhotographer]

@Zaera_Keena Sorry Just had to.

[MB_ThePhotographer]

Justs goes to show the thick skinned survive, the weak perish.

[Zaera_Keena]

Queen → Good band

[Aisha_Katalen]

@Kaely_Tanniss

A limit of 5 (just throwing out a number) of active war decs for any corp at a time.

If they had implemented a limit on the number of wardecs you can have, combined with a limitation on being able to leave a corp that started a war (to hop into a new one to circumvent the limitation) this would have solved the vast majority of issues.

But because the devs who implemented the new wardec system were such clueless beta carebears who didn’t understand what their actual design changes would result in: wardeccers formed Voltron. Instead of wars being more personal (and thus manageable) wardeccers were forced into becoming soulless molochs removing any sort of nuance to it all.

A classic case of “be careful what you wish for”. Just like how miners wanted to have “more asteroids” to then be Pikachu surprised that several months later the prices on ores dropped because of increased supply and now they have to mine more for the same income.

[Gothikia]

OK first off:

Permaband - HTFU

Secondly, it isn’t our fault you’re too stupid to avoid a camp. That’s not what is killing EVE, its the false assumption that some people are making that it should be easier and all the “rules of the game” has to be what you want them to be, tailored to how you play the game. This is a sandbox virtual world where emergence is the key property - not world of warcraft and instanced safe areas. HTFU and can I have your stuff?

Gothie

[Gothikia]

EVE is not dying. Shocking, I know. There’s still some imbalances in the economy due to scarcity that still has not been resolved, but its nothing that will kill the game. EVE is a brutal sandbox and if you can’t cut it, that doesn’t mean its dying. I’ve been here since 2003 and I’ve lost count how many times I’ve seen the “EVE is dying” threads yet its still here. HTFU and get a grip of yourselves.

[Gloria_Exercitus]

@Kaely_Tanniss

-Corps over 25 members should be war eligible.

I’d extend that to alliances. After all, a person could just craftily split their their 48 man corp into an alliance of two 24 man corps to avoid being war eligible.

@Kaely_Tanniss

-An increase in the cost to dec a corp, particularly small corps like it is for large corps/alliances (for example, for a 2-300 toon merc alliance to dec a small, 30 toon corp should be really expensive, but cheaper for a 30 toon corp to dec a 300 toon alliance/corp, etc. Cost should be based on member ratio: 10x’s the members, 10x’s the cost)

Yes…I like that one. But I would also eliminate the need for war HQs for corp/alliance below a certain size while keeping the requirement for corps/alliances over that size. This would allow small corps to raid/attack the stations of larger corps. It would also eliminate the situation ( which I remember Destiny Corrupted complaining about ) when a large corp simply clobbers the war HQ of a small or single player war deccer without any real fighting.

It’s also worth adding that in my experience in Wrecking Machine one of the issues has been that of fewer and fewer stations to destroy…so I’d alter the entire mechanics in which wars are fought and won solely via war HQ destruction.

@Kaely_Tanniss

Players don’t want to fight for their corps because they don’t care about their corps.

Personally I prefer to stay in a war deccable corp, which I do in both my other main chars. I just don’t like the whole thing of flitting between corps. In fact I deliberately left one of my alts in a war deccable AO corp after everyone else had been told to swap…and ended up having a few Blackflag war targets to shoot. That was fun…though I don’t think Governor Lee realised someone was still in the wardec corp

[Gloria_Exercitus]

@Kaely_Tanniss

Grow up Epeen and read it. Comprehension goes a long way. I want GF’s, not fish in a barrel. People to engage in the game, not hide behind something they claim to support. You always have a comment, but offer no solution. The discussion was about broken mechanics, not the “kills I want personally”.

It’s the usual forum situation of people talking at cross purposes because they have vastly difference experiences of Eve. We’re all playing the same game, but our experience within it can be as different as chalk and cheese. That’s the source of most of the forum arguments.

[Kezrai_Charzai]

@MB_ThePhotographer

The same “quote” where CCP said numbers were growing too fast and killed the game?

Actually, Epeen provided CCP’s game description verbatim from the EVE website .

Can you provide this quote or reference you’re referring to? Because it sounds like an inaccurately garbled or incomplete version of some things CCP said. Just curious.

[Kezrai_Charzai]

@Aisha_Katalen

If they had implemented a limit on the number of wardecs you can have, combined with a limitation on being able to leave a corp that started a war (to hop into a new one to circumvent the limitation) this would have solved the vast majority of issues.

(Note: replying to Aisha’s post but the comments are directed to all the “just force them them to PvP” posts)

I don’t think so. The base problem lies in the fact that all these “just change wardecs this way and they will work!” premises. They all assume that if CCP just applies the correct level of leverage / punishments / penalties / removes enough options, that somehow Wardeccers will start dec’ing corps that can fight back and will fight back once they realize they have no other option.

Because they do have another option. They can refuse to play EVE. And this is exactly what they’ve always done, what CCP’s stats showed, and why wardecs were changed.

Now, I can agree that perhaps some EVE devs are clueless about end results of their changes. But apparently many players become clueless when they think about wardecs and PvP as well.

News flash: Playing EVE is a voluntary leisure time activity that people engage in because they think they’ll enjoy it. As soon as they lose that belie, they’ll stop playing. And they’ll stop playing twice as fast if they feel they’re being forced into non-enjoyable activity.

Wardeccers, by and large, have and will always dec only against targets they think they’ll prevail against. Otherwise they wouldn’t spend the ISK to start the war, or waste one of their X dec slots on it.

Think of it this way: If CCP set up a new type of ‘declaration’ that allowed an industrial corp to slap an injunction on a target corp that ‘forced’ the target corp’s members to spend 2 hours per day mining Ochre in low sec. Are all the members of wardec and merc corps going to drop everything and spend a week mining? Not a chance. They’d drop corp, switch to alts, or take a week off.

You can’t force gamers to game in ways they don’t want to. EVE isn’t a PvP game - it’s a MMORPG that has some PvP in it. PvP games have a huge audience and people who want forced PvP all the time play them. People in a MMORPG are effectively exactly those people who don’t want forced PvP. This has been the source of many of EVE’s problems since Day 1.

The MMORPG population has always been far more interested in a type of persistent 4X gameplay in an active world. Where the emphasis is on character development and resource accumulation and power building - not on PvP. It’s why PvP is always a niche in these games and why PvP servers fail or remain low-pop. EVE only survives exactly because the PvP is mostly avoidable, and even then it has suffered major population loss.

There might be ways to change the wardec system to something that more corps would actively participate in. I’ve described some of them in the past. But you can’t do it by forcing players who don’t want to PvP into PvP. Especially when they know they’re going to lose, because EVE PvPers and wardeccers don’t exactly pick fair fights now, do they?

[Aisha_Katalen]

@Kezrai_Charzai

Wardeccers, by and large, have and will always dec only against targets they think they’ll prevail against.

Generally yes, but not always. In the same way that manufactures only want to produce items they can make profit with but they also do stuff they just enjoy doing.

If you limit the the number of wars an entity can start (And then remove the joining bit because that was just a dumb idea from the start) then you will limit the number of wardecs that can’t be dealt with, and instead you get smaller wardecs from smaller entities who can’t or won’t perma camp all Trade hubs and pipelines. You’re not going to avoid or win vs [insert massive wardec conglomerate], but you can do fine vs [insert 1-10man wardec corp].

Wars and conflict is GOOD in the setting of EVE, not everyone likes it of course but anyone going “nono but see, we need 100% safety (from wars)” is playing the wrong game. I don’t care how many paragraphs people spit out with all kinds of fancy “think of the player numbers and newbies” reasons, it’s really just all about themselves going “leave me alone”.

If I as a non market/production EVE player have to accept and deal with the pricing and profit margins of producers and traders, they can deal with my antimatter diplomacy.

[Smarter_ThanU]

Eve is not dying.

It’s the only video game I’ve ever loved.

[Zaera_Keena]

You’ll love this

[Smarter_ThanU]

I’m downloading that bad boy as soon as I get home for work.

Thanks!

[Gloria_Exercitus]

@Kezrai_Charzai

News flash: Playing EVE is a voluntary leisure time activity that people engage in because they think they’ll enjoy it. As soon as they lose that belie, they’ll stop playing. And they’ll stop playing twice as fast if they feel they’re being forced into non-enjoyable activity.

I’ve no idea what this baloney is about…as the actual premise was that of making it easier for smaller corps to wardec larger ones. You telling me a 3000 man corp is all gonna ‘leave Eve’ if they get wardecced by a 30 man corp ??

How about, for once in your responses, replying to what was actually said ?

[Zaera_Keena]

Not seen that happen, but the general reaction to getting ganked was to immediately quit their corp. Whether they also quit eve , couldn’t care less as no longer part of my entertainment.