What is EVE Online's main product?

Here goes a promising thread

It seems to be being derailed, yes.

That’s not what I asked. But fine. We’ll go with that. Insurance should be revamped to do like I initially stated. Isk should provide you, as an alliance, with power and an industrial base, through sov.

Isk should not harm little people playing ‘hockey.’ I want the best of both worlds.

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Well, that’s not how it works, but I get your point.
Apparently I completely missed the mark and misunderstood.

Sorry about that. Gonna read the rest later.

The basic design of EVE is as a competitive battleground sandbox. You can compete in markets, in mining, in manufacturing, in PvP, in ISK/resource generation. The nature of a ‘content’ based game is to provide you with an entertaining content experience, with some sprinkling of competition (‘who does the most DPS in our raid?’) to drive the whales to spend more on the blingiest bling. ‘Content’ games do not want you to suffer major losses, because that delays you getting back to the content and back to the DPS pi55ing matches.

A sandbox competitive game is, by nature, one in which losses should be significant. If losses weren’t significant, then the drive to be competitive in resource-generation/ISK-creation activities would be near meaningless. EVE has a competitive player driven economy, where many players are producing just as fast as they can. This requires destruction and loss to happen just as fast as it can, in order to not have everything flooded with all material goods in no time.

EVE is about harsh, no-holds-barred competition. The reality and the pain of actually significant losses are part of that. The other side of the coin is, if you are risking major losses, you are supposed to have your ISK/resource generation side of the game in order… so you can afford those losses. In EVE, essentially, ships and modules are ‘consumables’ to an extent, albeit expensive ones. What you do not lose is your skills, your experience at the game, your income-generating stream (which should be something other than ‘the bling ship I just fitted out and can’t afford to replace’).

In fact, EVE has a known, long-standing problem where there is too much ISK and resource generation, and the losses simply do not happen frequently enough to balance it out. EVE would probably be better off with no insurance payouts.

Fly what you can afford to lose, pay for it out of your own pocket if you do, get your ISK generation game up before your risk your ships.


There is no reason why a person, playing a game, should have to work for XP, or work for better gear. There is also no reason to wrongly generalize such a rare occasion of getting ganked, no matter the age, simply because it seems convinient for an imaginary argument.

Most people never get ganked in the first place. Declaring everyone a victim by default because of a situation that MIGHT happen to him is absolutely bonkers and dangerous.

There is no reason to protect those to whom it happens, because that would mean that everyone would need to be protected because of a tiny few, of whom 50% likely are at fault all by themselves.

Everyone would be worse off.

  • Safety
  • Liberty

Pick one.

** managed to typo few into view. Not my day I guess.


Quite so, and in my opinion, that is because of bots. Something a lot of you have complained about, profusely.

If the newer/solo players were not grinding so much, because they lost only 25% as a penalty for being stupid, that would be livable. At the cost of some of these ships that I fly on my main, 25% is still significant, as a solo entity.

I’d be careful, yes. But I wouldn’t be so fearful that I’d dock up, immediately, all the time, like now. Eve generates too much isk because eve tries to be too hardcore, and people find ways to generate isk to play hockey.

If isk were not so much, for the little skirmishes, but isk was needed to establish sov and industrial bases, only, the game would be better, for both camps.

That’s not how humans, in general, operate. At all.

The less people are used to hardships, the more they ask for even less hardships.

THAT’s how humans, in general, operate.

That’s not what I said. I said there’s no reason why they should have to work like in real life. I expect a 1/8th ratio, in a game. Something that should take me 8 hours, in real life, I expect, in a game, to not take more than an hour.

I get that a grind is necessary, so you don’t just respawn, no penalty. But it should not be like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfHg126bhag funny, I use the hockey analogy as well.

I think you buy an experience but a lot of what is being sold is that there are other people sharing that experience. If I was the only one logging on? I would stop.



No idea what you’re trying to say. There’s games far worse in regards to grinding, than EVE is. There’s plenty of other ways of making money, too, without actually working.

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That’s curious. We were both pretty clear. What don’t you understand? I don’t want rl grind times, on a game I play to relax and have fun. I want a 1/8th timescale. I should not have to ‘work’ ie, grind, for real life time, to get something in a game. I should not have to create a mining alt, a hauling alt, a pvp alt, to play at a reasonably competitive level.

That’s all. Do you disagree?

Then leave grinding to people who want to grind.

Yeah, they’re called EVE core playerbase players.

I do leave it to you. Where has that gotten us? Bots up the yin-yang.

Because most players are casuals like me. You need to meet us somewhere in the middle, or just play by yourselves, I think?

The ‘ego’ crap worked on me for a few months, while it had some newness, some interest. Once I skilled for better, and was shown the real eve, the losses that the vets make their money on?

Nah, I ain’t your dog.

Then do the smart thing and stop hanging around, if you can’t figure out better ways of making ISK. If you don’t want to play any of the other games, where you have to do exactly the same, then … well … why don’t you visit their forums instead and see what they have to say about you criticizing their game for what it is?

This is EVE ONLINE. The game was much harder and challenging ten years ago. It was also more fun and there was far more activity. Someone like you would have never even posted on the forums, because for someone like you the barrier of entry would have been way too high.

The only reason why someone like you is here, in EVE, is because the barrier of entry got significantly lower. Do you actually understand what that means? It doesn’t just mean that “more people play this game now”, no, and actually there’s no evidence of that even being a thing.

It also means that all those things people loved for a over a decade, and what made them stay in the first place, are gone. The hardships. The requirement of being vigilante at all times. The need to work hard to achieve something. There were times people mined for weeks to get into a thorax, because there were none on the market. Did they complain?


One man’s hardship is another man’s challenge. CCP changing the game for those who are unable to deal with hardships did not yield them an increase in amount of players, so whatever you think “should not be” really doesn’t matter.

Every time someone like you got what he wanted, after less than six months some new guy showed up, declaring that it’s still not good enough. I don’t know how many hundreds of “you” we’ve gone through already. It’s always the same: It’s never enough.

So please try to kill a different game and let this one die gracefully.



Figure out a way to turn your forum salt into fresh iskies, you’ll never lack anything again.

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I think you meant vigilant? But in error, you were right. Don’t play me like I’m some fool. I told you this was a posting alt. Stop with your ego. You are proving my point.

EGO. Elitism. As a core player, yes, you bought was eve was selling, and you let it define you, instead of you defining the game. It’s a sandbox. You are supposed to define it, but you don’t.

Because, like I previously said, it’s not really a sandbox. You can only make and do what they let you make and do. You can only create more of the same. CCP has the best of both worlds - they don’t have to create content, but they can limit what content can be created. You can only do what you’re allowed to do.

And you bought it. How much do you pay for your alts, altogether?

Yes, but ants (or…bees?) working together can do a lot:

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No, the simple fact that some people enjoy problems and difficult tasks. It’s only elitism if you are an idiot.

Ok, let’s go with that. That sounds really serious. An idiot. A sub-human moron? Because I don’t want to grind for rl times?

How much intellect does it take to grind? You shoot a laser at some rocks. You haul it, you sell it, for great prices. You have a mining alt, a hauling alt, maybe a maketing alt. You skilled them all differently, doing their tasks. None of it was all that intellectual.

You made a lot of isk, because you grinded away the time. Not because of intellect. From a certain perspective, I’d be entitled to call you an idiot, for settling for this.


There are ways to make money even if you are offline…