What is EVE Online's main product?

Communications Center General Discussion
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First, a few ‘disclaimers:’ this is a forum posting alt. I am no longer paying a subscription fee, and am therefor an alpha.

Now, that aside, what is eve’s main product? What is it selling you? My contention is ‘ego.’ Eve provides no real content aside from ‘player driven,’ as it’s a ‘sandbox.’

We grind skills, in real time, to get ships and modules, at an exponential price increase as the modules go up in power. So far, so good. But what do we use them for? To be able to access ever greater, ever better content?

No. There is no content, aside from missions and a few story arcs. We use them to wipe out other people’s ships, structures, and to accumulate more isk to buy more stuff, that has an equal chance of getting wiped out. Bring in real money. Plex. You can use this to generate an influx of isk, to keep living at a comfortable level, after the losses, or you can buy ‘skins’ and clothes and such, for your character.

But you’re the only one that cares about these things. Nobody that I have heard from yet, has come and said, you know, we were gonna gank this guy, but that skin was so great, we just couldn’t.

So you grind and grind, for, the grind. That being the game, if we can call it that, what’s the point in being omega at all?

An alpha loses a lot less. An alpha can’t use expensive modules, so he won’t buy them. A few alphas, in concert, can take down blinged ships, just the same. It was bad enough that eve felt like a second job, due to a lack of having any real content of it’s own, but with the gate-camps, alts, +2 scouting alts, etc, etc, as a smaller entity, why should I pay anything, as in real money, at all? Do I really care if my ship is a different color? No. Do I really care if you blow up my T1 stuff? No. It’s insured, something that loses it’s value, nearly instantly, with anything else.

This game, while not dead, I know it has a very loyal core customer base, is headed in the wrong direction, imo. All they are selling you is ego, bragging rights: I blew up this and got that, and I won this fight against this helpless noob, and ganked this or that. I have a cool skin I did it in in my Omega ship. Ain’t I cool?

Other than that? Is eve selling you anything else?

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I have my own set of questions/issues regarding what EVE/CCP is selling, and how. To address the issue in the manner that you posed it, however:

EVE/CCP is renting you time in a competitive arena where you can test your skills against that of others.

It’s pretty much what the local skating rink is selling you when they rent you ice time for a hockey game. You get a location, some tools, a certain framework of rules, and after that how you play the game is up to you.

They have colored up the arena with some nice posters and artwork, and they’ve put up a few of the stories of other fabled arena-goers on the wall… if you go well out of your way to read them. They’ve tossed in some practice areas where you can try out some of your shots.

Oh, they’ll also sell you some chips you can trade with other players for better gear than you have, and they’ll sell you some performance-enhancing drugs which are legal in this sort of competition.

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I’d be interested in hearing those, by all means. I’m trying to find something to ‘reignite,’ as it were, my interest, which is seriously waning. Well, has been, for some time. I shoot you, you shoot me, etc, etc. It’s fun, for awhile.

To answer what you said, I do play hockey, and we do rent out venues. It didn’t take me a year to earn my fancy equipment, though, and the prices are in accordance with what you’re selling us, the use of a big area for half a day. That, imo, does not correspond with the economics of eve. Noobs can grind for months to get the skills and afford the T2+ stuff, and lose it in seconds of undocking.

Just, gone. Not a rental, a purchase. It’s like if I lost the game, I had to buy a new stick, new gear, entirely. That is not the case, irl. I lost the game. I still have what I bought. I appreciate the analogy, but I hope you can also appreciate that it does not translate directly, as in the cost of real time and effort necessary to recover from a loss.

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CCP give you tools, you bring the project. If you don’t have a project, a vision of what you want to do or become, this game is pointless.

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That was kinda my point. You just restated it from a different perspective.

Can you give me some examples of ‘projects,’ that you either have, have accomplished in the past, or are working on, now, that would serve to illustrate the production of an end result other than ‘ego?’

It’s not like you can create new stuff, really. You can put up predefined structures, within certain limits, at great cost. You can claim certain areas of predefined space, within limits. To defend, at great cost if they’re contested, which amounts to a massive churning out of expensive equipment.

Say you keep your stuff. You won. What can you now do with this? Use it to generate the very same pre-defined, coded equipment, as in ships/modules. The very design of the game limits what possible goal you can have - all you can do is create more of the same.

Am I wrong? I’d love to be. I lack, apparently, the imagination you have. Can you help?

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The answer for me is fun and often enough some team spirit when fleeting up.

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Perfectly valid. I found it fun, for awhile, too. It’s exciting to be in a big battle that’s sorta even and your actions, in your ship, have a real impact on winning the engagement, or even just having a chance to.

That said, with the current mechanics, even finding a fight can be hard, and when you do, the isk-driven nature of the game is such that it’s usually terribly lopsided. Nobody flies anything expensive, which are the ships they really want to play in, since they trained for it, unless they are in a great fleet. If they are not nearly 100% sure of victory, they dock up.

You have to, because it’s not a hockey stick and some pads, that aren’t destroyed when you lose a game. Here, it’s gone. Personally, I think the insurance system should be revamped. Right now it only pays out for T1’s, basically. If they retooled it so it payed out 75% of the entire cost of your ship and all modules, upon destruction, I think you’d see a lot more people willing to risk those in more questionable circumstances.

I know I would. Losing 25% of it is one thing, losing 100% is quite different. That simple change, actually making insurance, insurance, that would pay back, would make me risk more, and not feel so troubled getting into more play.

But I don’t want to plex my income, as well as the game itself, so I don’t risk expensive stuff. ‘Don’t risk what you can’t afford to lose.’ The mantra of eve.

Over and over again we hear this. That, right there, says there is a problem. You can skill for it, buy it, but only use it sparingly. Is that fun @Meditril?

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Ok, my objectives in Eve concern the market, industy and PVP. I want to do those things:

-Creating a monopoly on some commodities across several empire regions - done, certain products in Gallente space were 100% under my control
-Finding a way to get the market work for me and not the other way around - done, time is your best friend
-Find a way to become an hisec trillionnaire without working too much for that - in process, way easier than you can think, even if you torture my kids i won’t say a thing about that.

-destroying over 1 tril of stuff - done
-killing over 1k people - done
-killing over 1k people solo - in process
-becoming a competent FC - oh boy, i dunno how i’m going to do this.

-once all thos goals are achieved, flooding New Eden with drugs i plan to create in my FOB in Syndicate, just for the sake of doing it even if it’s completely pointless nowadays.

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Tears :droplet: and salt :salt: obviously. :stuck_out_tongue: :wink:

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Grrrrr :salt:, you give some, you take some, it’s all about the taste.

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ccp is selling an advantage

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Good question. Think for me it’s self-chosen challenges and tasks, like with other hobbies, and the unique moments you only find in EvE. The persistent universe and “EvE forever” is also a very important promise to keep me around.

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Welcome to the EVE ONLINE forums, Nobuyuki!
I have cheap pitchforks and flame suits for sale!

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What do you mean by that? Part of what I’ve found in eve is that nothing is forever. It’s in a constant state of flux.

The game, being isk-driven, is well suited to your playstyle, then. You enjoy spreadsheets and economics. Some of us just want to play ‘hockey.’

At the end of the day, it boils down to this: you want me to work, doing some god-awful mining or something, pulling isk out of rocks, or endlessly grinding missions, to afford a T2 and faction/T2 weapons, to look for a fight in null, to get blown to hell by a gate camp of 16 vets.

Isk should be important, to gain sov, to put up structures and really make an industrial base. I get that. But right now, it means solo players and noobs can’t even fly what they can fly. Because I can’t insure it, and you know it.

If you want us to play with you, if you want pvp, if you want a ‘hockey’ game, you have not set me on fire when I lose a battle, burn up everything I had.

If we revamp insurance, like I previously said, and limit alphas to cruisers, not battleships, but open up, fully, that field? That means skills to lvl 5, combat on par with omegas, in that class and under, you’ll see us a lot more. You’ll have fun. Eve’s core playerbase is loyal, but you’re small.

If you want a game, you need to make some concessions. Most of us are not here trying to make trillions. Most of us don’t care about isk. The bots exist because insurance does not work like I said it should.

If it did, the bots would be a lot less valuable, and you’d get a real game.

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No wonder you left if that’s how you thought.
We make the content. It’s up to you to find yours.
You seem to be looking for someone to lead you to fun…sorry, but it’s up to you to find what’s fun for you.

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If you want me to pay you a monthly sub, then yes, I expect you to provide that service. Duh.

I get it, it’s a sandbox. We create our ‘fun.’ There is a difference, though, in being a venue, and being a p2w. Imo, eve is playing a midline that is destined to failure. Either have alphas or don’t. Stop trying to walk in the middle of the road and use us for fodder. If you want only your core playerbase with 60m+ sp, and sov and structures, and grandfathered T2 BPO’s, fine.

Just say so. But don’t tell me you want a fair playing field, you want more interaction, when the entire design of the game results in smaller/newer entities docking up at the first sign of risk.

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On topic… I don’t have an answer.

The game today is not the same game it was before 2012. The target audience is different, there are now more people playing for a shorter period of time, than there were people playing for a long period of time back then. I hope that makes sense.

The game is still transitioning into a new phase and, quite frankly spoken, almost all selling points it had before 2013 are gone, or only exist as a lip service to marketing. A shadow of its former glory.

What still applies is that you can still be someone in the sense that many, many people can get to know you for whatever reason. You can be the people’s hero, the people’s villain, or just be the same ant you* are in real life. *(general you, not you you. I don’t know you.)

Most people nowadays seem to choose the path of the ant, mirroring their real life. That’s fine. The game also attract seriously delusional people who believe to be great, yet fail to actually deliver this greatness.

I guess, in a sense, your question can be answered in an rather oxymoronic way, because it’s a rather generic answer, despite it not really applying to any other game out there. Most people sadly have no idea what to do with that sentence, be it the real world or a virtual one:

The game’s main product is whatever you make of it.

Cheesy.

:slight_smile:

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The design of EVE is as a sandbox game, which means basically they don’t provide more than minimal ‘PvE content’ or story. (Although TBH, they’ve worked quite a lot of story in over the years, you just have to look hard for it, mostly outside the game)

So the goals generally have to be something you set for yourself:

  • How fast can I earn a billion ISK?
  • Can I explore in WH space and make money? Can I do exploration in Nullsec without joining the local consortium? (and get back with the loot, of course)
  • What is the cheapest frigate I can fly in FW and be effective?
  • How can I annoy the most possible people without getting banned?
  • Can I have a couple friends set up ‘CODE. bait’ in high sec, and then nuke the nukers before they nuke my nukerbait?
  • How much ISK could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck ISK?

As you see, my own goals tend to be small-scale and not very far from high sec… I’m definitely more of a PvE person. I’m sure there are much more awesome goals to shoot for in low, WH and null space. Or shoot at.

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The game’s main product is money. For CCP. They use pychological marketing techniques that are decades old.

‘We have no content. Content creators are rare, and expensive. Just make them some new skins. Ego is everything in the selfie generation. Let them color their ships, make them unique, and they’ll go along.’

For awhile. Eventually, even these people will get sick of it, become accustomed to the new paradigm, and say ‘You know, you really didn’t give me anything. You’re still making money on my hockey games. I lose, and you profit. I didn’t just rent the venue, but everything I had, and your prices are ridiculous.’

There is no reason why a person, playing a game, should have to work like real life to buy, anew, a ship they trained for in the game, in real time, to use, and just bite it to 16 vets.

Sure, they should lose if they get hit in a gatecamp, but they should be insured and lose only 25% of the value of what they flew. That enables them to get back up, and keep playing.

If we can’t keep playing, where are you, core players?

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You realize that EVE was a thing, and competitive MMO game selling was a thing, before ‘selfies’ was a thing, right?

Ah well, now you’ve wandered off the ‘What is EVE selling?’ topic, and shown that what you really wanted to talk about was “Why do I lose value in EVE when I make a mistake and die?”

That is actually an entirely different topic.

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