I came back to EVE about a month ago. I did some farming in high-sec, then decided to move to null-sec again to see how much had changed. Aaaaand… wow. Was I disappointed? No — I was completely astonished. Almost everyone is multiboxing. (I’m fine with multiboxing for mining — I’m talking only about ratting.) I keep seeing multiple Thunderchilds, various smartbomb setups, x2-x3 marauders, Ishtars — seriously, I saw around ten of them with nearly identical names farming in a single system. I tried running Sanctums and Havens with my Nidhoggur. That was the worst experience I’ve ever had in this game. My fighters were getting raped, and my ISK per hour was around 100M — not even counting the fighters I lost. That was completely unplayable. So if I want to play the game in the current meta, do I have to multibox? Wasn’t CCP trying to get rid of bots before? Wasn’t CCP always trying to make the game more playable for newer players? I honestly don’t understand how a new player is supposed to compete. You have to compete with bots and multiboxers because of the state of the economy. They farm far more than a player with a single account, which increases the ISK supply and pushes inflation. Prices adjust accordingly, and a single-account player simply can’t keep up. Right now it feels like players with one or two accounts can only run Abyssal content if they want to make meaningful progress compared to multiboxers. Well done, CCP.
Thunderchildren and Smartbomb ratting MUST be done with several accounts, otherwise it does not work. Ishtars are just easily scalable into multiple anoms. Marauders are probably used for the capital sites.
I am quite surprised you are not used to this kind of multiboxing from high sec. The exact same happens there in these homefronts. Tons of people run around in 5+ Marauders, Ospreys or Exequors to farm them.
I have no desire to end up as a semi-AFK player who just activates a vorton projector or smartbombs across multiple accounts and waits for the site to finish. Isn’t this exactly the kind of gameplay where bots can thrive? Is this really how the game is supposed to look? And is this genuinely more engaging than actively controlling fighters?
Marauders should be perfectly fine for solo ratting in null sec.
They can do both the regular sites and the non-capital escalations that you get from them.
Other setups like Ishtars are more for low-attention ratting while watching a movie on the side, while Thunderchildren or smartbomb setups are more for multiboxers.
I once did group up with some others in my alliance to do Vorton Projector ratting, like a multiboxer but with multiple players instead. It works but wasn’t my kind of thing. I rarely rat and if I do so I prefer to do so at my own pace.
I’m not much of a ratter at all, but like trying some experimental setups. Did some havens in a polarized bomber, or sentry snipe ratting, but neither is very efficient for your time or your effort so they were more ‘fun’ projects.
I’ve also heard about polarized faction battleship setups that work. Never tried it myself though, but if I were to give battleship ratting another try I might. Damage close to a Marauder but without the risk of being stuck in bastion. Could be fun if you want to push the income of a single account, but don’t want to deal with losing your carrier fighters to rats. Just be careful not to lose your battleship instead, your defences won’t be great.
But the simplest to push your ratting capabilities as a non-multibox player is to use a Marauder.
Sorry to dissapoint you, but DED 10/10 sites ARE NOT “new player” friendly nor ment for new players.
It is basically end game content.
If you paid 4000 euros to get there, that is on you, not game.
That being said, I have this post of mine here on forum, where I tracked how many escalations and loot I got from doing DED sites in both HS and NULL….to say “it is a waste of time” would be a waste of time.
Basically escalations are so rare you do not cover the price of ammo used to get one.
That is why people are multboxing them- CCP fked the game so much that it is not possible to earn any isk unless you are full into it.
THAT is the reason why secondary market of selling and buying chars are so good today- everyone wants to go to end game immediately because everything else is serious trash and waste of time.
Sometimes a 100m sp character and a 20m sp character are almost the same if you use your sp properly. For example, its very easy to get straight to 10/10 Guristas farm from scratch. But, would it be more profitable than creating 4-5 new accounts and blasting havens with barely 5mil sp characters in smartbomb set up? Hell fkn NO.
Havens are not for new players or returning unless you multibox.
Is it fun? Not really
Does it make a ton of isk? Hell yes
I run 1 rod 4 Thunderchilds 2 stormbringers and I can do 2.5b to 3b a day not counting faction loot and selling sites to others from 45m to 120m each which I get 8 to 12 a day (1 to 2 ess cycles) .
End of the day the content you want to do solo isn’t meant for solo in the current meta. Honestly be better if you do other sites since they are designed for solo and would give more isk per hour
It is content that was intended for more then one person being done by one person, but the few people that would PVE together are wormhole-dwellers. The most of you are seemingkly optimizing each other out of PVE gameplay with multiboxing.
If you do it alone, it is about 50 mil per site.
Which in itself is trash.
But if you do it in tandem- then your loot is 25mil isk, which is even bigger trash.
Three people?
five? ten?
Yeah, no.
Unless CCP makes multipliers for more people, this activity is SP exclusivelly.
Well, I never tried to fly a bomber, and if it IS only 5 mil xp required then that is cool and all. BUT- you then need 2500 plex per month to pay for those accounts( or cheat the system and do it all alpha, somehow)…and where is the math in that?
To me, haven site is paying 50 mil( Iliterally start doing them like three days ago) and that is serious waste of my time. But it is new activity, already bored of it.
Doing it while watching youtube.
So math does not mathing.
How do you pay for those 5 accounts, and do not say with money.
Nah, your isk/hr attitude is not compatible with some game design elements. I used to run PVE ops with people and handwaved the profits entirely, because I regarded the gameplay / social stuff the actual reward. Or rather, understanding the profits went straight into our collective/corporate PVP capability - our fleet.
Wormholers understand this concept more intuitively - as they are logistically more dependent on one another. Isk/hr as a personal metric is simply not a factor for everybody. For me this concept became painfully clear during my time as CEO: some people are obsessed with isk/hr, others with killboards - it’s just a matter of funneling the same ambitions into a corp for something to become group gameplay. Multiboxers simply fall into the isk/hr category and I get the same impression here.
The math is in force multipliers - probably some alt boosting a whole mining fleet. I never did the actual math myself, but I’m pretty sure a setup can be ran where sheer product volume outweighs the cost of multiple accounts. This may not be intentional design but in terms of gameplay it’s just another body in a ship, probably with crap reaction time. The database doesn’t care. Players care far more, it seems.
That is OK, if your social life depends on playing games( no judging) then enjoy it.
I do not have “friends” in game that I constantly am “hanging out” with. I am from Balkan and here we actually meet for social stuff. But I can imagine you guys have to, especially if you are in the west. Again - no judging, just stating that in my case playing video games is not social thing.
So my goal IS isk per hour and fun, not social stuff.
Unfortunately, I did math on mining and to bring in 5bil per character, from mining Moon goo( realistic ore like Brimfull Zeolite) you must be PERFECT hulk pilot, supported by PERFECT Rorq( not Orca) pilot, mining for 2h per day( that means CONSTANTLY mining for 2h, not mining here and there).
Then yes, you can keep 2 to 2,5 bil isk per month per char after paying 500plex for gold time.
Not to mention, PVP fleet ready to protect you, 15 moon drills that are in constant 15 days cycles, basically- gank magnet of SUPERIOR kind.
If you have moons that offers you better ores every day, then you are obviously better, if not then you are worse for.
And then, that applies for all and every single account you throw at it- you must have same skills, same ore, same time.
150m3 per second per char is what we are talking about here.
Simple math.
And all of that do not include any expenses( which are not cheap), and logistic.
In other words- if you are twiching when I say go and buy yourself a char with perfect mining skills for 80 bil, on char trading site - then this is not for you.
This is realistic for people that own huge corporations.
I am much more interested in my little isk per hour and not to be fked by CCP devs when they feel like MOST WEALTHY PEOPLE have too much money in game, so lets fk all poor people instead.
3-4 min to complete haven with such set up. I hope you can do further maths.
OK, I love math, so lets see:
3 min to do haven( lets say you are right and that is the time you do it in).
Since only data I have is from my own experience, isk got from doing the heavens are about 30 mil per site in my Rattlesnake PLUS about 10 mil in loot and further 5-8mil in salvage materials.
I seriously doubt that you are collecting anything but loot( and with such blitzing I actually do not trust you to even doing that much, BUT- lets say you do loot with your MTU, that is a lot of ISK locked in them babies alone.), anyway- that would be about 40mil per site.
Again,. lets say you are doing that for 2h per day, 5 accounts 2500PLEX is our goal, that would be with current prices of plex- 11bil isk.
Cool now we have our ISK we need.
3 minutes per site, 1 minute for flying between them, so that is 4 min per site. And that time is, and you will agree I am sure- so nice from me.
I will give you all sites in 3 systems creating a triangle( so jump- do sites- jump-do sites), which in itself is VERY nice from me.
SO!
MATH!
4minutes AND 40mil per site, 2h per day.
That is 15 sites per hour, 30 sites every day, 900 sites per month
That is, and I did not think it will be this number, I must admit- 36 000 000 000!!
I am more then surprised.
Now, Where do you find 3 localized systems that will allow you to constantly farm havens( 4minutes per site, with flying around)AND without ANYONE ELSE trying to do them.
Not to mention red ones…uh those pesky red ones.
So, I went on internet and i looked for the footage….and what I found made me look at the screen like a god damn monkey.
The guy is actually correct.
I really must say again- I did not believe him, but it looks like end game content is easier then t1 abyss….
And to be ABSOLUTELY clear for anyone that do not know- these sites respawn in the system, it is not that you need to hunt for them..
I am on my ass……this is insane.
Properly insane….I am deleting my skill tree and i am getting me a MARIACHY BAND!!!
These are MINIMUM skills you need to fly this ship :
Hull Upgrades 3
Mechanics 3
Repair Systems 1
Energy Grid Upgrades 2
Energy Pulse Weapons 1
Micro Jump Drive Operation 1
Gallente Battleship 1
Minmatar Battleship 1
MINIMUM( you will not be able to fit the ship due to lack of power and cpu, and you will die if this is your only skills).
And this is the fit, it cost about 4 bil, plus I am sure we need some implants and those will be at least further 2bil if not more( also skills for those):
[Machariel, Killmail 131561002]
Core X-Type Explosive Armor Hardener
Corpum A-Type Explosive Energized Membrane
Centus X-Type Large Armor Repairer
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
Corelum A-Type Explosive Energized Membrane
Dark Blood Cap Recharger
Dark Blood Cap Recharger
Imperial Navy Cap Recharger
Domination Large Cap Battery
Imperial Navy Cap Recharger
Large Micro Jump Drive
Republic Fleet Large Proton Smartbomb
Republic Fleet Large Proton Smartbomb
Republic Fleet Large Proton Smartbomb
Republic Fleet Large Proton Smartbomb
Republic Fleet Large Proton Smartbomb
Republic Fleet Large Proton Smartbomb
Republic Fleet Large Proton Smartbomb
Republic Fleet Large Proton Smartbomb
Large Explosive Armor Reinforcer I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
SO, it is not 5mil skill point, BUT with that kind of isk income- it is not even worth of thinking.
BUT the target these fancy fit will put on your ass….damn, you will light up any and all spies in your corp…