What is the game missing most

Communications Center General Discussion
209

Look at the graph on that page and then the graph at EVE-Status (set to lifetime)…it’s uncanny.

http://www.quickmba.com/marketing/product/lifecycle/

Everything you said is correct. I would just add that if they would have started their next big project during EVE’s growth/maturity stage (and then kept that cycle going)…but this is every company’s dream yet few manage to do this. It’s kinda fascinating actually when you look at how mega companies did it from humble roots such as Mitsubishi, GE, Honeywell, etc…constant development and growth rather than sitting on their laurels. But I digress…

Here’s a question for you: What product “should” they have had in the works in the '08-'10 peak? Was Dust a good try or a complete failure and if a failure, was THAT actually the root cause of EVE’s current issues?

I know this is way off-topic but I think this thread is mostly dead now so, meh… :upside_down_face:

210

In all honesty, CCP had good projects during that timeline. The failure was not that they chose bad projects, it was that once they had over 200/250 developers (not counting GMs etc.), they became unable to manage their own projects effectively. It was also because upper management was quite disconnected from the actual gaming community/their own players and had no real idea how to proceed with developing further beyond their initial success. As they grew to 400, then 600 and beyond they just became completely bogged down in projects and ideas they couldn’t deliver on.

(Keep in mind that despite all the blunders along the way, CCP is a success story. They’ve succeeded better and longer than 95% of all businesses that start. My complaints about CCP aren’t because they’re failures, it’s because I like CCP and EVE and just get frustrated when they keep shooting themselves in the foot.)

To be more specific: by '08 they should have had a couple teams working on “re-writing EVE”. The base engine, the new player experience, and analyzing what the activity/reward/risk balance needed to be if players were to maintain interest going forward.

In 2010 they had owned White Wolf for 3 years and should have been showing real progress there. World of Darkness could have been an excellent product (look at the success of the ‘Underworld’ movies). Instead they mismanaged the project and shifted WoD assets to getting Incarna out the door, only to have that blow up in their faces.

For comparison, they got Dust 514 out the door in roughly 4 years. That was a project they ‘officially’ started in 2009 and released in January 2013. Of course, limiting it to consoles, and not being up to par with other shooters was the primary issue there. (Along with poor interaction with EVE itself.)

A re-write and re-focus of EVE, World of Darkness, and a viable Dust 514 on console and PC would have given them the product base they needed to keep moving forward. Heck, even just a good re-focus of some fundamental EVE mechanics would have supported a longer growth cycle. They could then have done better with their Valkyrie and 3D offerings.

2 Likes
211

100% agree here. I’m not knocking CCP at all here. Heck, EVE is still the best game out there IMO even as goofy as it is currently…

Good analysis. I guess it’s in PA’s hands now though…is it safe to say that the clock is ticking?

212

I’m well aware that when it comes to any advice to the development of the game, I’m talking to a wall.
The only thing that mattered was my money, and they are not getting any.

1 Like
213

The issue was specifically down to why the people shoot Jita monument. Microtransactions.

When:

  1. the CEO himself does pricing and overprices it to the point the game had one of the most expensive items in shop in the whole game industry.
  2. and then CCP tries to justify the decision by writing about $1000 jeans,
  3. the CCP “Greed is Good” internally distributed news pamphlet leaks and everyone sees CCP Soundwave being pro “gold ammo”,
  4. and then only it was decided to step back and issue a decision to stop the fire from spreading, writing a “sorry, we can change” letter

…then its obvious it had to end up like that. Decisions that were bringing CCP down.

People despised what CCP have done, as it was the reflection of CCP management attitude towards game and players that people despised. Being treated like idiots that will fork $70 for some virtual monocle.

1 Like
214

This is partly possible. I’ve been manually docking for years and I can certainly recommend it for immersion.

Edit: Also, wow, I had to report so many post here that I can no longer do so for 23 hours after reaching post 151. :parrotcop:

215

Sorry but not quite true. Microtransactions was the big issue, yes. It was the ‘rage’ issue, it was the ‘cancel subs now’ issue. But WiS was the ‘disappointment’ issue and the ‘straw that broke the camel’s back’ issue.

It was the one that showed to a lot of players that CCP had no idea what to do with their ‘spaceship game’ except for something that wasn’t spaceships, and then proceed to do that unwanted thing badly, slowly, and without testing it before release. Then all the other stuff got piled on that (everything you mentioned in your post, which was all true but not the only issue).

The longest thread I remember taking part in would have been this one Incarna/WiS disappointment and again for a TL;DR I’ll toss out this quote:

"The problem was that CCP totally botched WiS.

  1. It has no multiplayer value, as you can only wander your hangar alone
  2. The hangar offers no benefit, making many things take longer than simply using the old interface.
  3. It was released with HORRIBLE perfomance issues.
  4. It was released without any indication of added features anytime soon."

Poor delivery, that frequently crashed, on over-hyped expectations that had almost nothing to do with the core gameplay of EVE, at the cost of halting almost all ‘good’ development on both EVE and WoD for half a year or more. That was what I was referring to when I said CCP management was disconnected from their own player base and unable to complete even reasonable projects in time with twice as many resources as they had previously.

(Keep in mind that by 2011, entire other games with 3D character avatars in full motion and character creators had been designed and produced in the amount of time with the amount of resources CCP put into making one crappy room that crashed.)

1 Like
216

People may have thought like that even despite CCP Sounwave stating publicly on fanfest that CCP will work on spaceship and WiS part, without discrimination. Because not every player is informed and have their own opinions that arise from assumptions, effect of incomplete knowledge.

Well, it was botched but we have to look at that from different angles.

Yes, that was a bit sad, CCP were on the other side of river with that. Interaction between players was what would sell it. Even when CCP would introduce just a bar and some emotes.
But they still had chat like usual, and could undock to fly together.

The Neocom part of interface looked the same. Every thing was still perfectly accessible from Neocom.
Fact is some things were doubled. But CQ also had something new and better than Neocom. The central point was the screen, it had some usefull links and provided informations about game in more accessible, interactive manner. Like internet! It was so good that some people were working on delivering content there from outside game, distributed by special client. I remember having conversations about it! Players improving experience their own way using the fact you could copy video to a folder and it would show on screen in CQ! :partying_face: :clinking_glasses:

When players receive graphically very demanding game, they will want to run it anyway. CQ did run smoothly on better hardware I remember, without melting cards that were standard, not overclocked. Like with every new thing, some things don’t work on certain computers and need patches.

Despite CCP dev saying they work on it, on fanfest. Again players being informed badly, assumptions.

But it all had impact probably on CCP thinking. The way people think in that situation can be just “well lets fix some stuff, show we listen, and then we will see”. And this they did.
Microtransactions did not go away but prices were sliced.
Other races CQs were released and were really nice looking.
New ships were introduced after a nice “lets ask what players want, lets make them show it” contest.
Things were looking better for a year or so.

But they still had too much to chew in their mouths because too much projects being worked on. Stumbling into that hole again, result of decisions to expand on many fronts…
Players were happy again, so CCP did not want to listen as much, and those more vocal and remembering were not in the game anymore because resigned…

As in war, good way to lose is to be fighting on many fronts at the same time. :woman_shrugging:

If they would stick to two projects instead of 3…

1 Like
217

I dont see how it’s an unreasonable change as all other forms of game play where you lose a ship you at least have a chance to make it out with your pod.

218

They should undo the log off timer considering when one is involuntarily disconnected during combat, they come back in a pod or worse.

1 Like
219

High risk, high reward. If you don’t want to participate in high-level PvE you are free to farm any of the mindless zero-risk activities that CCP has provided for you.

220

No, he is right and you’re not a dev. Until a dev, in this thread, backs you up. You’re just being a self-proclaimed representative. Eve is a game -with- pvp and any real pvp game doesn’t make you work for a month or two building yourself up through pve activities before you can pvp. More farming goes on in this game than in WoW. World of tanks is a pvp game. Planet side is a pvp game. Eve is a legit video game with pvp. Not a pvp game.

2 Likes
221

Yes, actually categorized as MMO with open world PvP, beside other elements of gameplay which include lots of PvE.

1 Like
222

lol
Then you are wrong, until a dev, in this thread, backs you up.

Anyhow you choose to ignore reality, again.
Devs ALREADY explained that they designed Eve with PVP “at its core”.
I am not a “representative”. This is not my word.

223

Wrong. PvP is by far the most important content in EVE, so EVE is a PvP game even if it is not a pure 100% PvP game by the strictest of standards. Take away PvE and EVE continues on with its most important gameplay intact. Take away PvP and EVE immediately dies.

(Note that industry and market PvP are still PvP as your opposition in those activities is other players, not NPCs.)

224

You take away the pve and you won’t have ships to pvp with. PVP is only one aspect to eve.

And it’s mad weak to consider industry and markets pvp btw.

I don’t care, save your fingers

2 Likes
225

Nope. See above, industry and market PvP are still PvP. You are competing against other players, not NPCs, and your success or failure is determined by which player is better at the game. Remove combat PvE and you do impact the mineral supply a bit but PvP can easily cover the loss.

And it’s mad weak to consider industry and markets pvp btw.

No, it’s stupid to consider them PvE and displays a fundamental lack of understanding about what the terms PvE and PvP mean. Market PvP and industry are indisputably PvP.

226

Taking a multi billion isk battleship into low sec, null, whatever, for some pvp is high risk. Still have a chance to get away in your pod though.

These trig mobs in highsec can tear apart a well fit well piloted ship and you can still get away with your pod. And they drop basicly the same crap that’s in abyssal space.

I think you just like to argue, not debate, just argue regardless if you have a legit reason to or not. Do you not feel like you are in control of your real life? It’s okay you can talk to us, this is a safe space.

1 Like
227

Just because someone claims that it’s pvp doesn’t make it pvp. It’s competitive, but it’s a far cry from pvp. You NEVER hear of a story of some station trader who is continually getting undercut who then buys his competitor’s merchandise so he can get a name to hire some mercenary corp to go after him. The .01 isk game isn’t pvp and can easily be done in a remote part of the region whilst you do conduits, missions, or pvp. Most of the people who stick to the markets, at least in high sec, are either alts (so you can never really pvp against the competition), or they don’t leave their region. It isn’t pvp, it’s just people being impatient and then turning it into a competition.

PVP isn’t a competition. It’s literally a death match.

2 Likes
228

It’s literally player versus player.