To get 20 ewar ships on grid, you need to kill triggers without clearing full wave, sure in that mission triggers seem bit funny. Even if you mess up first wave trigger you can fix things by finishing first wave before working on second. Since you complained ewar battleships on top of all else it seems you had all waves active at the same and in witch case mission becomes almost impossible and your only option is to wait for it to be reset by downtime.
Knowledge is what makes things possible to even low sp characters.
I was reading this remembering when I did the Epic Arcs missions long ago - Some of them were quite hard and I had to warp out a few times, and that was with BS 4 or 5 and L4-5 BS, Support, Gunnery and Drones skills at 4- or 5.
When I read the 2m SP I got a facepalm moment. Look OP, youâre basically complaining that the Epic Arcs are too hard, but while you may have the SP to properly fly a frigate and possibly a cruiser, with the skillset to possibly get away with L2 missions, maybe L3, flying a BS and running L4/Epic Arcs is much more skill intensive as well as having a decent knowledge of the game mechanics and capabilities of your ship of choice.
One of the things I observed over the years: If you canât use T2 drones (or possibly maxed or near maxed Alpha drone skills using faction drones) you have nothing to do in a BS, and if you do youâre going to be terribly ineficient.
You are basically complaining that you canât run high level content right off the bat, with a low SP characters. Like in ANY games out there, going through high end content takes time, experience and skills.
I donât know why you expect EVE to be any different.
The only problem with very specific equipment hard-counter gameplay being the only option, though it does make sense missiles/drones are that and it would have been good to know (iâm guessing because they arenât turrets, for the turret âtracking disruptionâ) Is unless youâre a years-old player you canât just chop and change as you go, because every little size of every little thing in every little specific line takes days/weeks/months of training.
Having very specific requirements for middle-of-the-road PvE content, imo, is very newer player unfriendly. Wanna do this? Sorry you need 2 months training for missiles, missiles ships etc. Wanna do that? Sorry, you need training for a drone boat and all the drone skills etc. So then farm the same low level content like level 2 or 3 missions repeatedly for months, half asleep, to unlock those other specific things? Then move on and grind the next level for months while waiting to unlock the next set of things?
Still terrible design, no?
20 was a tiny bit of an exaggeration but the first group of the first room was like 10 - 15 enemies and they all seem to be able to Ewar - i did not trigger any extra waves. I linked the wiki on the mission, showing 7 can ewar and then there were battleships using it on me also, so at the very least 10 in one room one group - that does sound pretty ridiculous doesnât it and is my main problem.
Did you miss the part where i said i was doing normal L4 missions with ease already and had even passed the first 2 or 3 missions of the epic story arc, complete with a little bit of Ewar?
Did you also miss the part where i said my main problem was 8+ of the same Ewar, being spammed, stacked and even used by BSs? Not the general mission difficulty, not the 10+ elite enemies alone, but the overuse of a single Ewar, used by everything on top?
That thatâs lazy, garbage design that forces you to AFK 100km, AFK drone boat or use missiles which is a relatively decent and engaging alternative, but that requires very specific training requiring alot of real time?
I guess you did.
I thought this also, but it would be better because for example i managed to kill 3 or 4 of the Ewar ships - with difficulty (popped the frigates upon entry each time and took down a couple of the cruisers close-range with 50km ammo) but it meant absolutely nothing because the same Ewar was endless. the good thing about 2 or 3 Ewar of this type and 2 or 3 of that type, is it canât be permanently used and permanently stacked on you, no matter how many you manage to take down. Kill the tracking disruptor or 3 and youâre no longer tracking disrupted, kill the 2 or 3 webbers and no longer webbed, kill the warp disruptor? you can come and go at will.
Instead - kill 3 or 4 tracking disruptor Ewar? Slog through another 5 or 6 at least, that are also now BattleshipsâŚ
I think at the end of the day, this game was just not intended for me (in context of needing to be able to switch out specific loadouts, yet the training time for each specific loadout taking too much real time training) - i have the time to invest alot of time and effort into the game i really enjoy playing (which is why i sub almost straight away in any game i play) - while this game is made for the opposite person - the casual with a full-time job that has little time - they can come and go as they please for a couple hours here and there and still progress their character at full pace. The only problem is that full pace being so slow, in real time, aimed specifically at that crowd only.
Casual players have character progression tailored specifically for them, with the option to spend more money for more progression specifically tailored to them. What do the gamers that have more time to play get? A shrug? A terrible PLEX conversion rate? Expensive injectors that turn your entire game experience into grinding just to be able to afford them?
I guess they made their choice and thatâs fine, if a little unfortunate.
It shows at the top âinitial groupâ 4 elite frigate and 3 cruisers all use tracking disruption.
Itâs true it says only one BS uses it, the one on the last wave - but it has to be bugged somehow. I did mention how it doesnât show it on this page, but it did happen on the first group nonetheless.
Iâve been saying how because of all the Ewar garbage i could barely hit a thing, that i only popped frigates on entry and took a couple cruisers out at most. That page shows alot more is needed to trigger the next 2 or 3 waves let alone the final with that BS.
It literally wasnât possible for me to have been able to trigger that many waves off that little progression.
Is interesting though and something may not be quite right because iâm pretty sure it was that BS name that was using Ewar on me too, yet itâs not possible my progression was the reason it was spawned - having spawned 4 previous waves as well as that 5th off a couple frigates and cruisers.
Also, why is even spawning the next waves apparently based on certain enemy kills even a thing? /facepalmâŚ
Right, so you died on a stage where nothing warp scrambles or arr too proud to admit own fault.
You should have killed first stage so that only triggers remain, which is 3 ewar cruiser and 1 bs. Then finish the bs and spawn it makes, leaving only 3 ewar cruiser. Rest is easy to manage even if you have to work while being webbed and scrammed while killing ewar cruisers.
It is slso worth using guide that lists spawn triggers since eveuni doesnât.
HuhâŚ
Donât remind about Gallente Epic please! I have managed to finish it twice in past but every time it was pain⌠Especially Studio 1 if iâm not mistakenâŚ
A year is roughly 20-24mil sp. So your 1.5 is about a month yes? And youâve managed to get battleships and large weapons in that. So you must understand it isnât going to take months to train some cruise missiles (or rapid heavies) and some sentries.
Whilst eveâs pve isnât exactly linear (and nor is itâs training), an epic arc is tougher level pve when it comes to solo and highsec.
You can take a break from the epic arc whilst you train into a geddon and brush up on missiles and drones. It should be there when you get back iirc.
Thatâs the main thing to take away from this. To pick yourself up, brush yourself off, change tactics and try again.
Once youâve been with us a bit longer youâll likely feel differently about this experience and view combat in eve as less about âprogressionâ and more about finding the right tool for the job. Pvp works the same. Less emphasis on sp and progression and more about rock-paper-scissors.
EVE is the game that you always had a lot to read about before doing anything, learning from other players. The Wikis, Blogs, Videos, all of it helps.
So then farm the same low level content like level 2 or 3 missions repeatedly for months, half asleep, to unlock those other specific things
Skills are trained passively. All you have to get is ISK that is not coming passively, even with PI you have to use the transport ship to sell the product. There isnt much grinding for standings if you have Social skills trained also, and when you do SOE epic arc that is a lot easier and faster to do than other epic arcs.
Its not terrible, its so complex and it punishes you for lack of knowledge about it, that you have to get some knowledge before acting. You can make ISK fairly fast, dirty methods like scaming or stealing stuff, or doing DED complexes. Dont have to grind missions.
There are solutions to those easy issues you had, you just did not know them.
PvE is easy here, comparing to PvP. At least in PvE you know what to expect if someone was already there and written about that. Or you can always kite PvE stuff, or kill the scramblers and warp out, but you need drone skills and missile skills for PvE. In PvP you can be hotdropped, pulled into traps, some cloaky ship can suddenly appear on your overwiev in low sec etcâŚ
Yes, this seemed an odd choice to me also when I started playing EVE. The passive-over-time skill training seemed to encourage a 'log on once a day to set up skills queue, go play an hour for the ISK you need, then log off and play some other game. Repeat for 4 months, come back to some decent starting skills built."
As you say, gamers who devote more time to a game when they start are often used to playing hard, levelling quickly, moving up the ladder of game challenge quickly. Although personally I find this approach a sort of ârush through to end game, then ask why thereâs no more content?â head scratcher, a lot of people do it.
As I said before, you were indeed lulled into a false sense of security by some early successes. 2M SP is simply not enough to be running battleships into that kind of content. Some level 4âs are easy, some Epic missions are easy - that does not mean they all are.
You keep repeating the âbut I did okay in the previous missionsâ line as if that should be some sort of guarantee that you will do okay in the next mission. It isnât. EVE content isnât easy. It varies, Itâs dangerous. It expects more from you than other games. This isnât bad design (although there are certainly design issues throughout EVE), it is challenging design.
It sounds like you rush-squeezed into a battleship with the bare minimum of skills, thinking âHey, Iâm in a battleship now, this thing will rock!â. It doesnât. In EVE, a bigger ship doesnât make up for lower skills. The opposite is more true - with a lot of skills, smaller ships work well. Battleships and larger are not the omni-tool of EVE⌠they have specific uses and situations where they work well, and they need more and more skills as you get larger. Cruisers are the go-to ships for that Skill point range, and even there you need more SP to do really well. Without sufficient skills, a bigger ship is just a bigger, slower, more expensive target on the shooting range.
I would also suggest that you did the bare minimum of research on the difficulty of the Epic arc, on the skills needed to do well with it, and on that mission in particular. I would further suggest that you in fact saw you were having trouble, saw you didnât have what you needed to handle the mission, but kept making fast easy changes in a minimal effort to adapt, and going back until you died.
You may feel that you really were trying hard, and you really were prepared to handle this, and the game somehow cheesed you into blowing up. But honestly, everyone whoâs played EVE for more than a year or so is reading this as ânew guy with new ship syndrome, blows up, gets mad. This will be his âokay now I buckle down and start playing smarterâ moment, or he quits in frustration because EVE is too demandingâ.
To answer the earlier point of âso if I have a lot of time to play and canât skill up faster, what is the point?â. You need ISK. Lots and LOTS of ISK. You need experience. Lots of experience at different things. You need to do a little more research and setup than other games. So yes, you may end up running level 3âs in a cruiser a lot more times than you prefer⌠or checking out courier missions, or station trading, or something. Or exploration. There is a lot to do to fill in that skill waiting time, even if some of it is kinda boring and repetitive (which, frankly, happens in pretty much every MMO Iâve ever played).
Exactly, either that or coincidentally pay even more money on top of a sub.
After having made this thread and reading all the feedback, i get that i didnât have the intended SP. That 2M is woefully low especially after saying i only had that amount out loud lol (though i still would have got it done had i happened to have trained for and been using the right weapon, missiles, the one weapon not affected by tracking disruption since i was already able to take some enemies down with me. So the SP was kinda fine.)
I also now get there are specific tools for the job - specific counters and that even the PvE combat, apparently, is extremely rock paper scissory.
Thatâs the problem now though - not being able to learn from my mistakes and do said loadout change for this rock-paper-scissor design and continue on, without needing to spend alot of real time (or real money, preferably) to be able to have the training to do so.
Thatâs why i said at the end of one of my posts that at the end of the day i think this game just isnât designed for me, due to the character progression being specifically tailored for casual players. Iâm not a casual player, i like to spend alot of time on the games i play and donât like to have my progress artificially slowed down because of it. So extremely.
I donât like being able to not progress until an arbitrary real timer has counted down and removed the wall to the required equipment for the current content iâm wanting to do. So itâs not that mad dash for the promised land of end game, that people seem to be in a frenzy over these days.
Iâm actually glad the PvE is challenging, thatâs why i was already pushing my limits, worried the PvE would be so basic and easy in such an old game. Pushing to a level i was able to handle before the Ewar spam and what kept me challenged and interested.
But then bam - all of a sudden arbitrary rock-paper-scissor wall.
So this isnât a âItâs too hard rage quitting cause i have to learn or change my playâ or whatever either, but because i know without a doubt in my mind that even if i got over this and continued on, that iâd never be able to accept such an insanely slowly paced progression curve.
We both know barely, that the training soon takes much, much longer to achieve anything other than just the basic/entry level stuffâŚ
EvE rewards patience. It is a different system than many other games out there.
The benefit to playing a lot is experience and the fun in the journey rather than grinding up levels faster.
Itâs funny that you think EvE is designed for the casual player since EvE has had a bit of a self-recognized tendency to be a haven for turbo-nerds often no-lifing it fairly hardcore over the years. In fact, efforts by the game developer to appeal to a wider, more casual player pool have been met with great trepidation and resistance by longer-term EvE players. Pretty much the exact opposite of what seems to be your view of the game.
EvE doesnât have an end game at one end of a linear game progression scripted by the developers. EvE is âscriptedâ by the players and the vast number of situations the players set up. Itâs why missions - one of the minority of situations set up by the devs - havenât changed in many years. The devs encourage players to build the game world with the tools they give us rather than set up content for us to grind out to get that next level or purple gear.
I hope you learn from your experiences so far and stay with EvE. The game is not as it was but perhaps changing is not dying, we shall see⌠You should make a new account and start from scratch. Posting your account details before they were removed puts your account in great jeapordy, as Iâm sure youâre aware.
Weâve all made mistakes, I hope you learn from yours and stay with the game. There is much fun to be had in this game.
So⌠whatâs the issue?
Lvl 4 Epic arcs done solo are what could be considered end game content in EVE.
You also could have brought a friend or two.
Your own words say it would only be a month before you could handle that mission (P.S. I suspect you would find later missions in the arc even worse, but who knows, you might have enough player skills to handle it.)
The skill system itself might be what makes it appear like that at first. You log in, set your skills, do a couple missions or whatever, then log out while the skill queue goes on. It might seem casual at first but there comes a time when you suddenly realize that all those skills you trained offline arenât as effective as you thought because you havenât practiced using them. The lesson is also likely to be somewhat expensive, the more so the more offline skills you have that let you buy shinier ships and equipment.
Iâve paid for a few of those lessons myself, and I do recognize my own reactions in the OP. Losing a ship to some cunning pirate, well, it wasnât 100% my fault since another player was involved. He was better, knew his stuff, excuses excuses. But losing a ship to some rookie mistake in a PvE mission? That burns, especially since itâs usually only me to blame for not checking it out properly or not concentrating enough. Itâs sometimes enough to put me off EVE for a few weeks.
At the end of the day it turns out it wasnât just the build that was the heart of the problem, but the slow real-time character progression it takes to train for and be able to switch-out and rectify said build. For each scenario, each mission, each set of enemies, each activity, each specifically used Ewar etc.
I didnât mean EVE is aimed at the casual player (far from it i know) i meant the character progression is designed around the casual player. And i donât mean casual as in skill wise or experience, but amount of time willing and able to play.
The only thing a more dedicated/frequent player gets, is a terribly priced skill injector to work towards, turning your entire experience into a fulltime job just to be able to make enough for each injector (priced almost 1B?) and Plex being even worse.
So the core progression of the game (for newer players) is more aimed at the casual playing playerbase (or big spenders) and iâm far from that, i could play all day every day (and kinda was. The game itself is great - depth, challenge and open world pvp ftw) but with such restrictive real time progression, iâd go insane haha.
That isnât something that you nor i can fix.
P.S itâs kinda ironic that progression is so severely slow in an open world sandbox centered around pvp, there is literally no end of content so i donât understand why CCP feel the need to slow progress down so much.
So people pay even more than theyâre already getting for subs, for shortcuts along the way? (a decent start/pace)
