ok
see ya o/
The training time is not an issue until you want to really max out certain skills⌠some you can train for a week to go from L1-L5 skills, while others mainly ships, takes quite a while to train into. Be thankful you donât have to train learning skills to be able to train skills. I was lucky to bypass that. Most skills you can get by only going up to L4 until you really want to min/max the output, or use T2 variety of mods. Donât rush to try to do everything all at once, and youâll enjoy the game more that way.
Why do you have to blame anything and everything but your own lack of piloting experience?
âSlowâ skill progression in EvE is tailored for players to gradually learn things while you skipped all that and jumped straight into content designed to test all those skills. Arrogance and chest-beating are never good unless they are backed up by real skill.
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Wait, EvE is for casuals?
Old games are easy? Like âDefenderâ down the chippy in 1980 easy, or on home computer like âImpossible Missionâ on the Commodore 64 easy?
Look, you tried a faction epic arc mission designed to remind Gallente chaps that turrets arenât everything and to use their drones, with the skillpoints of a 1 month old. Said mission kicked your arse. Either go and learn real skills in PvP of your liking, drop to more appropriate difficulty PvE tasks (lowsec exploration, maybe) or just buy an injector with all the ISK your hardcore playstyle must surely have provided.
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Yeah I gotta say the repetition of âIt wasnât me, it was bad game design!â is getting a little tiresome.
You donât need a different skill set for every single encounter. You need a base level of some well chosen skill sets for the tasks you intend your character to do. No game allows a new character to rush into all tasks right away and succeed at them, no matter how much you want to play all day, every day.
What you ran into here was your own lack of knowledge and experience. Your own poor research. There was not âonly one way to beat this combo, and a different one way for every encounterâ. You could have used missiles. Or drones. Or gotten a much better tank and slowly whittled them down. Or kited them. Or outranged them. Or warped in, killed 1 Ewar, and warped out again. Repeat until no Ewar.
Your contention is that EVE should be ladling on the skills as fast and as hard as you play, to reward your time spent in-game proportionately. However you clearly lack the actual piloting, personal, judgement and experience skills to cope with EVE content. That is exactly why EVE training is slow⌠to keep people from rushing into expensive gear that will get blown out from under them.
Iâve played EVE for years, on many characters, and I never found that what was holding me back was âlack of rapid skill progressionâ. Lack of ISK held me back in many more cases than lack of skills⌠and your OP already pointed out that you actually did not have the ISK to replace what you were flying.
Basically you are trying to pat yourself on the back by starting a game and rushing into hard content and beating it, substituting play-time-per-day for actual knowledge or experience or judgement. Many of todays games cater to that sort of instant gratification, âlook ma Iâm awesome!â crowd.
EVE doesnât.
A reply to one of the only relevant responses:
You donât need a different skill set for âevery single encounterâ no, but you do for almost every different activity. From ratting, to incursions, from pve to pvp, from exploration hacking to exploration combat sites, from group pvp to solo. And that wasnât even taking into consideration the epic storyline and specific Ewar and indeed some, specific missions/encounters.
Yeah and even training for the âbase well chosen skillsâ takes alot of real time. One by one? Maybe not, when multiple are needed in quick succession? A mission that was fine with turrets all of a sudden needing missiles or drones and accompanying ships? Not even in a different activity at all like trying to go from Incursions to Exploration hacking, but from one PvE mission to the next? The only thing epic about the mission line, too, was the arbitrary rock paper scissor equipment requirement all of a sudden, which is why iâd already passed the first couple of missions in the chain until then.
So i could handle the difficulty, i had a decent enough ship, decent enough training, knew i what i was doing and every other aspect enough to do the epic story arc -
until arbitrary equipment requirements from Ewar spam that requires at least a week+ (for each essential setup) to train for to be able to continue doing something i was already able to beforehand
So again i wasnât bad, my character underdeveloped, didnât know enough about what i was doing etc and so the others in this thread better believe i blame the game and its design. Itâs because of the simple fact of a real-time rock-paper-scissor equipment wall.
All of a sudden turrets donât work but missiles do. I didnât need better gear or better piloting or better training, i needed the exact same (power-level) stuff, but just different. That, is my problem and garbage design.
While you donât need to learn to use every single ship and every single weapon, it takes alot of time even for entry level progression in the essentials for the clear and iâm understanding now purposeful, progression walls. And thatâs not even taking into account the ISK for each ship and/or setup, why? Because ISK can be actively earnt and worked towards
Oh ok and which mmos, exactly, require you to need a sword and shield for a solo-quest then all of a sudden a 2H axe for the next? Where you canât just swap weapons either, but you need to wait 2 weeks to do? Which mmo sees you doing fine with a Warrior while questing, then all of a sudden needing a ranged class like Ranger or Mage to continue? Which mmo requires you to very specifically need heavy armor for a paticular set of quests and light armor in another?
For dungeons, raids and other group content? Sure and even then you donât have to wait, in real time, to be able to acquire the needed setup to continue on.
While you donât need to max out cap ships, you do still need alot of training that takes alot of real time for alot of the essentials for the sudden rock-paper-scissor walls and iâm sorry, i just find that retarded.
I guess iâm crazy like that.
Edit: TIL an epic questline justifies having real-time rock paper scissor progression walls randomly thrown in. Not higher difficulty, but actual arbitrary rock paper scissor equipment/character progression walls. Remind me that if i ever make a game, to make every questline but the first be an epic one so i can artificially extend the content forever and no-one will have a problem with it.
So what MMOs dont have time gating on raids again⌠And do t need you to get one tier of gear to get the next.
Really Eve is far kinder on time gating than most games. And most skills contribute across most set ups.
This! Iâm interested in what MMO has faster access to high-end content. Iâve not tried many, but a unifying theme was that if you walked into a level 27 area at level 24 you had no chance. Thatâs not even an exaggeration either. Your damage too low, theirs too high. Also, the game just flat-out prohibits you from upgrading the bronze sword of crapness to the iron sword of mediocrity untill level 26, even if youâre given one. Totally naff.
Yeah, Iâm sorry OP, you kind of painted yourself into a corner with your thread and now youâre just digging the hole deeper. Because the answer to your questions is âEvery MMO Iâve ever played, in one context or anotherâ.
Games have build trees for a reason, they have multiple builds and gear you can swap between for a reason. They have different boss mechanics so that you have to adapt your tactics to the boss. They have immunities and special attacks. We make parties to blast through a swarm of AoE mobs and then we pause and switch to single-target and control or buff or whatever for the boss. Seriously, what you are complaining about here happens in every single game.
Frankly, youâre the level 30 guy running into the level 50 area and wondering why the heck every mob out there suddenly stuns and roots and knocks you down, and you canât get your attack routines off, which would totally work perfectly fine if only the mobs would stop stunning, rooting, or knocking you down.
You donât run into the level 50 content until you have built the skills and abilities and gear and levels and hitpoints and resistances that allow you to survive that level. Basically you are falling back on âthe game let me fly a battleship and run Epic Arcs, therefore the game should have made sure I could complete that content with the bare minimum of skillsâ.
You keep ignoring the fact that you had at least 5 different ways of beating this mission⌠but you were just too hammerheaded to back off and figure it out. Now youâre just digging deeper holes trying to blame the game design, training delay, whatever.
Do level 50 content when youâre level 50. Donât run in at level 30, die, and blame bad game design.
3 Likes
While your skills limit you in a way that you would not be able to finish this encounter while solo, the loss of your ship is 100% on you and your lack of knowledge of the game, consequently extremely poor execution. You skipped all the stuff rest of us learn while flying frigates, destroyers, cruisers, at super low newb levels and jumped into higher end content with zero research, zero idea, and obviously didnât even bother to ask anyone, not in any chat channel, not anywhere.
Most of all, you violated Eve rule #1.
Incidentally, over in the PVE sub section of this forum, theres a dude that just finished the Gallente Epic Arc ( which is more difficult ) as an alpha, and in a freagin Gnosis out of all things. A Gnosis FFS. A complete newb ship.
Who exactly said anything about raids?
Iâm sorry but half of you (most) canât even follow the argument properly.
You have a point here, as someone who is able to follow along with simple arguments and can see logic and common sense. The thing here though, is i did specify âfor newer playersâ because it takes awhile to first get all those essential but global skills. Then you have all the skills that donât apply across most setups - specific sizes of specific weapons let alone different weapons altogether, specific ships with specific uses and 30 different drone skills etc.
This comparison is ignorant and invalid. Again, i was already able to complete the first couple of missions in the epic story arc - it was only when an arbitrary equipment change was required. Not better equipment, just different. Equipment i could get at the click of a finger, but had to wait real time to be able to use. Had i been using missiles? I probably wouldnât even have noticed âTracking Disruptionâ was a thing and would have kept right along completing the epic storyline (until of course the next arbitrary progress wall via equipment checks)
Your comparison doesnât work because in it i canât have been a lvl 24 in a lvl 27 area - otherwise i was a lvl 24 that completed 3 of the lvl 27 quests, then was told by an NPC that iâll need to spend 2 weeks training on 2 handed weapons to be able to break enemiesâ defense and hit them in the next quest. A retarded, garbage, needless design wall and hopefully easier to understand and see when explained, yet again.
How are people so unable to grasp the simple concept of a simple arbitrary equipment change requirement? No wonder itâs the way it is.
We both know you canât swap between actual types of gear. Sure from one sword to another, but not from sword and shield to bow (except for 1 or 2 very specific mmosâŚ) so another invalid comparison.
Same as the person above with an invalid comparison of being in a higher area, since i was already progressing through the area until i literally just had to change equipment. Which takes alot of real-time to be able to do.
Iâve said nothing about the loss of my ship for a long time now. That isnât the problem and iâm aware it was my fault. It wasnât my fault though because of lack of knowledge, itâs because there wasnât a repair bay in the solar system. Every time i got into hull after trying to finish an Ewar off, before having to warp in and out, repeatedly, i also had to travel to the next system and dock there so - warp out of quest, go through gate, dock, repair and undock, go through gate, warp back to quest. Repeatedly. Too much needless tediousness while trying to strongarm my way passed stupid equipment type walls, up to the point i was actually hoping iâd lose my ship and so kept pushing the damage done to me further and further.
Epic arcs are end game content like raids. You are complaining about a time gate on doing end game content here. claiming we arenât following the debate when we are and you arenât following our points⌠yeah not a good mark in your favour.
Also, never done a mission chain that goes up levels in an MMO. Those used to be common⌠especially in main storyline based missions which the epic quests are also.
Also Elder scrolls online. To answer your earlier weapon swap example. Or LOTRO legendary items. Other MMOs certainly have time/play gates on new gear.
And as has been pointed out to you you didnt need to swap gear. You could have asked a friend for help. Or just asked randoms in local. There are laser based ships capable of doing the arc. Another weeks training may have been enough.
At no point does any of this present rubbish mission design. It just presents a challenge you failed at. And failure should be a chance in an epic arc or end game content.
1 Like
A Level 4 mission epic storyline, in high sec security, that i got access to just a few days/weeks after playing the game, is like endgame mmo raids?
I highly disagree, but then does that mean even more garbage design since i could already access it? (Even though itâs far from endgame and/or raidingâŚ)
Iâm done. People know how i feel and why for those that could keep up.
Thanks for your time and all the feedback and help guys.
Good, active and helpful community if nothing else.
Cheers.
Welcome to Eves famous lack of hand holding.
High security is not newbie space. It just has a specific rule set.
Eve does not stop you going places far too dangerous for you.
Eve is much more free-form than other MMOs. There arenât usually red skulls above enemies or next to quests (but donât mess with NPCs that have red diamonds next to them yet).
You were in a sequence of missions too hard for your character to realistically do. Youâre just too stubborn to admit it. The argument that the first 3 âsetting the sceneâ missions in chapter 1 could be done isnât convincing any of us.
Get some good drone skills at least, they will definitely serve you well.
Good luck.
Once again
1 your fittings were not good
2 you lacked critical skill for your chosen tool and didnt even have mastery 1 trained
3 you lacked knowledge on essential game mechanics
4 you lacked critical mission specific knowledge
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Whiskiz
In EVE, if you turn your back, someone will slip a dagger into it 
You have a completely valid reason for departing EVE - the conditions for rapid progression (âpay to gain SPâ) arenât acceptable to you. Sadly, saying so involves figuratively turning your back, so youâve become a target.
Keep talking if itâs entertaining. Otherwise just walk away. Theyâre not listening anymore
BTW - keep your account. Even if you do something else for a year or two, you can gradually add SP by logging on now and then.
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To quote an old friendâŚ
Iâm not sure how much this applies these days in general⌠but it seems to fit for the OP
if it was âa few daysâ then there is a bug and you should report it.
Youâre supposed to practice with basic ships until you understand how they work, before you have access to a L4 agent. and after that, the epic arcs (besides the minmatar which is easy) are one more level of difficulty above.
You are NOT supposed to start the l4 by a L4 epic. Also you are NOT supposed to rush BS.
Wow, hard to believe you went there. You have ignored every section of every post that told you what approaches you could have used to beat the mission, even with your limited noob skills and your limited EVE player skill. Instead you keep falling back on repeating the same arguments over and over again, which basically consist of:
âThe game has an Epic mission set, which allowed me to complete the first couple steps with my noob build and noob skills. Therefore the game was obligated to allow me to complete the rest of the arc, without making significant changes to my approach or to learn anything new. I am not responsible for research, or levelling up, or changing my approach, or asking for help - the game is simply bad design because noobs canât complete Epic content while remaining noobs.â
Because you appear to think a sandbox game known for the challenge it presents has to hold your hand every step along the way, here are the things you missed:
Google:
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First result, you said you checked, Eve Uni wiki. It tells you about the Ewar, about the waves, about the triggers. It was already explained to you that you obviously triggered the next waves before completing the first, you ignored this.
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Second result: Raging Sansha - EVE-Inspiracy.com - gives you even more info
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Third result: Right to Rule, L4 Epic Arc - EVE-Survival - gives you even more detailed info
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Fourth result: Trials and tribbulations of an Amarr L4 Mission Runner gives you direct player feedback on the types of ships, builds and tactics needed for the mission.
You ignored all this info, and/or glossed over it and just thought âYep, a battleship is all I needâ.
You ignored the basic rules of EVE and of heading into Epic content with minimal game experience and skills - in any game.
You repeated the same mistakes until you died in the mission, without learning anything. You are repeating the same arguments, in the forum, without learning anything. You are ignoring anything that points out this was your own fault and responsibility to handle better, that you had avenues to do so, and you simply charged in like a noob and kept repeating your error until you died.
You are correct in one thing, however. EVE is obviously not the game for you. EVE requires more of itsâ players than âcould not pass the âsmarter than a frogââ test - things got hotter on you, and you got boiled.
I suggest playing something that guides you carefully through each step, and doesnât require you to learn from past mistakes.
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