I totally understand this point. Like in real life its not a good thing. Yet to me that is what makes Eve unique, it mimics this aspect. That fights can be “over” before they start. For a lot of people this doesnt make for fun PvP or gaming certainly. Yet it is the niche and limitation that CCP has hardcoded into the game itself.
Dynamic PvE works. I hope CCP comes up with something good.
Then why not just suggest these two things in the thread and move on?
The OP posed a question that gives everyone the freedom to express what they would do. There’s no need to argue or counter others views. They are all just opinions. None better or worse than any others, and its completely irrelevant how anyone else thinks. We don’t all have to express the same view on things.
Join pirate factions. Walk inside your ship. SHip bridge view (yes I know the capsule stuff). Ship crews (with skills and all).
Open Jove space but make it really dangerous to explore.
But all in all, I just want to join the Sanshas for good.
But… but then he’d not be able to entertain us with his half baked theories and factless suppositons.
Get rid of local.
And again, it’s ok. As I said myself, can’t be fixed without re-doing everything from scratch. Initially I was answering to @Josh_Elize who proposed to “remove all PvE content”, explaining why a lot of people in the game may not accept such decision and will stop playing instead. He seems to share a very common misconception that PvP in Eve is a bliss, while it’s mostly as described above, and won’t appeal to everybody (and risk-adverseness being the reason is another common misconception). Instead, by wisely introducing really interesting PvE aspects (and current PvE is not the thing), you can keep a lot of people in the game, and make them a part of the PvP ecosystem, regardless of whether they want it or not.
But whatever. No amount of talks will change this anyway.
I agree as well. Hook em, bait em, cook em, fry em. Eat em up yum:wink:
I would say that by trying to appeal to everybody you appeal to nobody 
How would this help?
That depends to who you imply we are trying to appeal to? We already have a lot of people in the game, who mostly do PvE content, even though it’s a boring mess. The fact this a PvP game, overall, doesn’t scary them off, and they even like additional challenge, yet they don’t want to do PvP themselves. Many of them do it in low/null/wh space, thus they already participate in PvP, though unwillingly. A lot of people also leave Eve as they get bored (and again, PvP is not an answer for this everybody will like, due to the fact it often even more boring; that depends what fun means for you - I, for one, don’t see much fun in hours wasted on tracking down some easy victim you’ll gank in 5 minutes, that doesn’t give me any satisfaction). If you’ll make PvE more interesting and challenging, you’ll see more people doing it, and more people will retain in the game to be your target. What is so bad about it?
They could have made PvP more interesting and challenging not so? I don’t understand why they keep putting their efforts on things this game wasn’t meant for and neglect the things that it is renowned for. Oh well, it’s their baby they can do what they want 
Besides, updating and maintaining more and more PvE content will make this game harder to keep updated in the long run. Hence they’re just creating their own white elephant and their own undoing.
How exactly? Mass-PvP intrinsically boring due to a very limited set of actions you are expected to do while staying a regular member of a huge fleet. On a smaller scale, it still remains of predatory nature, as there is no limitations to number of participants in one encounter, thus no balance of any sort, and it’s impossible to add one unless the whole game is somehow redesigned (what won’t happen). A lot of people still won’t like to be on any side of this endless hunt/gank, so PvP will attract mostly the same audience, no matter what.
Then why not remove production, or logistics part of the game? Both of them could be simplified and just handled by the game itself. That would also save a lot of efforts, and we can contribute them to PvP development. We can keep up this “optimization” until we’ll arrive at typical session MMO
PvP is far more interesting when done for a purpose. As in competition for resources and assets. Competition creates more interesting game-play and builds stronger communities in the long run. That is the sort of PvP I’m talking about and what gets people together and gives them a sense of urgency and commitment. This is a reason to belong to corporations and create more player content. And there’s nothing wrong with catering for the small guys as well (Faction Warfare itself could easily be way more interesting).
PvE should really only serve the above and nothing more. (Feed the machine)
Fine if you disagree though, that’s just what I personally would want changed in Eve Online A simple consensus on the philosophy of the game.
Eternus8lux8lucis2d
Kyon the only issue I have is the last. That if balanced PvP exists that people will rush to it is untrue. N+1 still exists. This is the unbalancing nature even if the fleets are the same otherwise.In a slug fest, where skills, ships and other factors are the same, the largest fleet simply wins.
As others have stated, its not about perfect 50/50, its about having at least some chance some times and a lot more close fights / battles.
In another mass PvP game I play it is a pride and joy to have a PvP raid consisting of 30-40 players and taking on and completely wiping 80-100 players. It takes a good amount of player skill from each individual team member on top of running decent builds and be top notch in their teamplay.
This aspect is completely missing from Eve. The last and only time I have seen anything like this was back in the days of Rooks’n’Kings and the pipe bombing of the mass null blobs. There needs to be more stuff like this, and also player skill has to consist of far more then resource (cap, shield, armor, hull) and target management. The only 2 things in this game that are a little bit skillful are use of transversals and sig tanking and transversal is not very useful due to amount of bubbles, scrams and webs on the battlefields. Either transversals need to made easier to use, buffed, or webs / scrams need to get nerfed.
Need more of these types of things.
LOS mechanics would be a start. A frig behind a battle ship should break LOS for weapons for example which it currently doesn’t and also break direct scan methods, thus detarget, double that if the BS is active and engaging weapons, MWD, etc. etc. that should interfere with scanners and sensors of all sorts.
Likewise a ship should be able to hide behind a large asteroid or large enough structure to hide it. It should not pop up on overview, or at least have some additional targeting restrictions like take 3x longer to target if its an object which is considered to greatly impede sensors, 2x longer if just a simple obstruction.
Friendly fire should be followed right behind LOS changes. O, you want to shoot those XL guns right through your own blob at that enemy ship at their front ? Sure … go right ahead … This would require combat formations and people having to actually use their brains instead of just blob up on the leader like lemmings and focus targets 1 by 1.
Also needed is an instant self destruct that does a ton of damage in point blank range and the damage diminishes the further it gets. This should not exceed ganking capabilities but should definetly be noticable.
There are many more things that come to mind. But overall PVP here needs to be more skillbased on both tactical and individual player level. The only level that is good is the strategic, tactics are barely OK on small scale, majorly suck and almost useless in large scale, and individual player skill is meaningless in large scale.
I agree with many of your points of view. They makes sense from a fun standpoint. LOS used to be a thing. I remember getting Concordonkken from a station due to my missile AOE splash damage that hit a station while engaging a war target in high sec, as well as weapons not hitting NPCs or players through asteroids.
The issue with LOS issues is its another calculation. Unfortunately thats really it. But trust me I would love terrain and more issues than just N+1 in the equation. Goons Wrecking Balls proved how deadly and stagnant that sort of gameplay can be in massive fleet fights.
You mention Rooks and Kings, RnKs revolutionized warfare in Eve in a large way. Their videos are immortalized for capsuleers everywhere to this day. ( PS this is a plug if people havent seen them, theya re awesome!!) Yet unfortunately such innovation is hard to do without everyone jumping on the bandwagon in a hurry. If you cant beat them join them comes to mind.
The real question is if CCP wants to create it or just cater to status quo in the future. But I hear ya loud and clear.
Okay. For one, my idea like many others in this thread was not intended to be serious.
The biggest seller in Eve Online is not it’s gameplay or it’s so called amazing community; but it’s experiment in human nature.
If everyone was held to the high standard that your character was your only way to be a part of the world, it would be far deeper and more interesting. You’d have to rely on other actual people to do the basic things like hauling or researching BPO’s or maybe you’d decide for yourself that’s something you’d like to do. Think of how different the economy would be and how people would have to play without perfect skills for everything.
Many people play on alts because they restrict their mains from doing some forms of gameplay. For example, they’d never wanna get caught dead mining because they post here with their ganking alt. Or caught PVP’ing because they spew the credo as a main in Signal Cartel.
Just a pipedream. Calm down.
The only thing I thought that would be good would be to add bonus’s to using faction modules together. Like having a set within implants and getting a bonus if you have them all in your head.
I feel this would add value to faction modules and add value to all LP with in the game. Maybe that spurs some more activity in low sec FW space? I also would add that using faction modules on factions ships could bring a added bonus.
Anyways just a thought and not really thought about it to much but there maybe some kind of balance in there that could be cool! So spending more on the pimp modules gets you that little bit more when they work together.
Please discuss, I would like to think that some of what I said has merit.
While potentially difficult to balance (not impossible, though, surely), it certainly makes sense from a thematic/stylistic/role-playing/internal consistency perspective. In fact, that’s pretty much how I play already: for example, when flying a VNI, I make a point of using Federal Navy drones, even on those occasions when they may not be the optimal choice. Also, what bling is on there is pretty much all Serpentis - why? Because they are “the” Gallente bad-guys, and presumably the focus of internal operations of the Gallente navy. When “wearing” that theme, I also use some Guristas bling - why? Because they are the main thorn in Caldari’s side, so an “enemy of my enemy” sort of rationale (or rationalization, if you prefer 
)
{EDIT: typocide]
For example create more special roles, reduce the number of pure DPS people needed in a fleet …
It would in crease content. It’s hilarious/sad watching all the bears insta dock the second a neutral shows up in local out in NS.