What's the Point?

New Citizens Q&A
21

You want answers to your questions, here we go:

A tornado is a glass cannon. Try an Enyo, much fun like a mosquito, he won’t hit you once with his arty. And then gtfo, writing gf in local in Jita is pointless. But probably he will not take the fight but dock asap, so perhaps another brawling dps monster will do the job - prepare to lose anyway.

That question is probably rhetorical, but the answer is “PvP”.

There’s no “we” and plural “you”, every day players quit, players return, and other players join. And of course most of us try other games and do funny things with unfunny people.

You guess wrong. All the haulers and carebears should just not feel too comfortable and learn the ropes.

Looks like it’s time for burning Jita again.

22

Not really. Most PvPers are very much at least interested in how material is gathered and weapons of war are built. After all, they need that stuff to dominate their opponents. In fact the best need to have a very solid understanding of the cost:benefit ratio of all the things in order to make the correct strategic and tactical decisions of what to risk and when to escalate.

And that need is what makes your industrial efforts feel like they have meaning. Other players will give you valuable things, included even game time in the form of PLEX, for your efforts. For stuff in Eve to have meaning, it has to be lost occasionally, even - no, especially - in highsec where most of the game’s wealth gets concentrated.

If you want to be part of the shared universe, you have to take both the benefits and the risks that brings.

I think you’ll be fine. Losing a ship smarts because of this real value things have in Eve, but the sting of losing one also fades very quickly.

23

You are very much incorrect, friend.

Google…she is a thing…

So you expect people to answer rhetorical questions when you clearly demonstrate you wouldn’t accept or possibly understand answer anyway? :ok_hand:

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24

It was not a rhetorical question, though you wish it to be taken as such. It was a very real question, which some others have been kind enough to take seriously and answer.

I would consider you to be a Forum Troll, kind of like a Forum Ganker :).

25

It is a bookmark that is located closer to the “hull” of the station compared to standard “warp to 0” point. In that case you always land in dock range and can instantly dock without the risk of having to move to do so.

Now, if you lag on warp-in to Jita 4-4 station then it is better to make and use observation bookmark (1000-1500 km away). You warp there, wait for things to load, then warp to dock.

26

Additionally, the insta dock position is supposed to be far away from where all ships from Perimeter reach the station, e.g. close to the bottom of the station.

And of course you need a warp out bookmark. Just grab a fast cheap mwd frig, undock, and burn right ahead. After 500 km or more you set a bookmark where you can warp to in a second after undocking without slowly winding like a stranded whale between bumping undocking freighters and orcas.

Some warp points in Jita are handy for everyone. Lesson learned!

27

Please allow me to attempt clarification for you, my good friend: I DON’T CARE WHAT YOU THINK OF ME

I tell you the truth, if you don’t like it that is your problem not mine.

There are many EvE players who happily engage in multiple activities in EvE. There are many who don’t do either pvp or pve - but to generalise on that is very much a false dichotomy.
Do what you like, just don’t have a victim mentality.

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28

I like this answer.

I also like a lot of the advice you got.

Your post thread title is “What’s the Point?” Well, honestly unless someone asks your attacker and he’s decent enough to reply, we won’t ever know. My guess is you were a misclick. By that I mean he was intending to target someone else, but due to the lag you describe got you instead.

So, what can you do about it? As others mentioned use instadock bookmarks.

But, in your original post you declare your dislike for “ganking”.

Well, this is EVE. You’re in luck. If you are willing to put in some effort, you can do something about this. I mean this seriously. You can make an impression on this player.

  1. Okay. You say this player ganks alot. Well, that means there will be more players with killrights against him…just like you.

  2. Contact those players. You’ll be able to find at least some of them on zkill.

  3. Ask the other kill rights holders what time they play. If you have over lapping game times (which you should since you all got ganked by the same player), organize an intervention. Show up in force in Jita, when your ganker is playing, with your
    “posse”, exercize your kill rights at the same time, and shoot the guy!

Nothing expresses your disdain for his playstyle quite like showing up with a group of your fellows and shooting back. Be sure and mention that in local, too.

Your ganker played within the rules of the game. You can play within the rules of the game, too; and express your opinion on his playstyle at the same time.

I understand you are a new player, probably don’t have a lot of spare isk to throw away on this endeavor. But, if you are willing to organize this and carry it through, I’ll front you an enyo and the fittings. @Pierre_de_Bricassart can you toss a fit out for this?

When I was a new player, people were generous to me in game with their time, and their isk. I would be happy to do this for you.

If you can’t skill up to an enyo before the end of the 30 day kill right period. I’ll front you a catalyst instead, or even if you just prefer a catalyst.

My point is this is EVE. You can organize, and express your opinion on another’s playstyle. You don’t have to just sit back and take it, especially in the situation you describe.

People will help…if you have, what they consider, a decent attitude.

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29

The Nullsec Solo PvP-Fit is close to what I think of: https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Enyo
More Magnetic Field Stabilizers instead of the tracking enhancer in low. AB instead of MWD for a small sig radius, also the tight orbit can’t be kept at too high speed.
The T2 brawling ammo buff can be your friend :slight_smile:
But for new players hard to reach in time.

30

The point is that he could, that’s why he did.

Why does a billionaire want a fiftieth Lamborghini? Why fly first class?

No, by it’s very definition, its player versus player, or PVP. In case you didnt know, that’s what that acronym stood for.

A tornado isnt 500 times more powerful, intact, a sinensis can easily defeat a tornado in most situations.

Ships that are more expensive, or bigger, arent necessarily stronger, and battleships can be taken down by frigates solo.

When you win, someone has to lose. And that ruins it for others. This is no different from any other game. You can ruin someone’s day by beating them at call of duty and hear them rage on the microphone.

Does that mean its somehow wrong? Of course not.

Eve is like any other game. You play, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If you just started, you’ll probably lose more, until you become more experienced. I lost plenty when I started out. I was baited out of my drake navy issue which was more expensive than your ship. It’s all a learning experience.

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31

That’s kinda like saying “Activision and the rest of the call of duty players consider using guns to get kills as legitimate gameplay. I dont. Only knife kills should count”.

You kinda did, though. By calling your opponent a bully and coward, and saying you don’t recognize ganking as a valid form of gameplay or pvp, you’re essentially saying he cheated and you’re a victim of unjust game mechanics.

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32

Sorry, OP, but Solonius is right. HTFU instead of whining because you got killed in an open pvp mmo.
What happens when you go to jail while playing the Monopoly? you call it “unfair”?

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33

Okay… I am intoxicated enough that I have decided to give this a crack and be “helpful.” :wink:

Fun fact: “Powerful” is relative to the situation.

If your destroyer was orbiting his battlecruiser at 500m then there would be literally NOTHING the battlecruiser could do to defend itself.
You could, theoretically, chew it down and blow it up.
Yes… even in a destroyer shooting spitballs. :wink:

Join. A. Corporation.

Camradiery helps.
Having people who can give you tips and advice on the fly helps.
No… you do not have to have certain ships, ships, or skills
(Note: If a corporation does have these requirements and/or are not willing to be flexible then they are not for you)

Most GOOD corporations recruit based on word of mouth and good attitude (humor helps!). So go out there and socialize with people.

Are you a spaz? Please. Most of the people I have met in EVE ranged from “weird” to “dude… are you sure you are taking your meds?”
Are you a bit introverted or anti-social? That’s fine. Just be upfront about it and take any teasing on the chin (keep a good attitude!).
(E.g. There was a guy I used to play with that never talked. He would be on audio and could hear everyone else, but he ONLY typed in chat. We called him “the loudest quiet person” in the group.)

So… this is incorrect.

There are SOME things you can do to mitigate the risk of being ganked. And there are SOME things you can do to avoid being ganked outright.
All of these things require a little bit of planning and forethought.

HOWEVER… nothing is a silver bullet. This is EVE and the way the mechanics are set up makes the risk omni-present no matter what you do. This applies to everyone regardless of their playstyle, profession, and general personality.

So… what could you have done differently?

  • Tank up and don’t carry more than it costs to gank you: In your first post, you admitted that you were carrying 70+ million worth in stuff in a destroyer-class vessel.
    Destroyers are not really known for their tanking abilities. They are basically slower, harder hitting frigates. This means they are easy to destroy (seriously… another destroyer can theoretically gank another destroyer).
    Instead…
    – Fly a tankier ship: More EHP (Effective Hit Points) means it will take more DPS (Damage Per Second) to gank you.
    There is a limit to how much DPS any one ship can achieve. And gankers will lose their ship and insurance upon committing the act (meaning their ship is a total loss).
    What you want to have is a tanky enough ship carrying less than it costs to potentially gank you.
    Generally speaking: 32,000+ EHP per 100 (or less) million ISK worth of cargo.

  • Insta-Undock Bookmarks: This is pretty simple but takes some time to set up. The gist is that you want to set up a bookmark 150+ km from the undock point of a station.
    To do this is simple:
    – Grab a fast frigate and slap a MWD (MicroWarpdrive) on it (you literally don’t need anything else)
    – Undock from one of your frequented stations
    – Come to a complete stop (Ctrl-SPACE)
    – Immediately try to align your sights straight ahead from the undock port. You can do this easier by pulling up the tactical display and moving the camera around until you are level
    – Pointing the camera AWAY from the station, double click in a straight line AWAY from the station undock point
    – Turn on the MWD
    – Go make some coffee
    – Once you reach 150+ km (more distance is better) from the station you can create a bookmark from your “People and Places” window
    – Now… when you undock… right click in space, select your bookmark, and warp to
    ----- Note: Test this out a few times in the frigate to make sure it works
    ----- Note: Try not to take too long to initiate warp. Your ship’s trajectory will deviate the further you are from the undock port and warping to a place requires your trajectory to be within 5 degrees or the destination
    – You should instantly warp to your bookmark, bypassing any station campers

  • Don’t shop in Jita: Jita is the “Mos Eisley” of EVE. Lots of trade, but also a hub of scum and villainy precisely BECAUSE there is so much trade.
    Try a “regional hub” or remotely order and ship things from Jita if you can (hint: Red Frog Freight)

I personally don’t like corporate subterfuge and spying. But it is a part of the game and perfectly legal according to the DEVs. So I adapt accordingly.

One does not have to personally like something to accept it for what it is. In fact… it is probably a good idea to become proficient at the very thing one dislikes… so that one can better identify and avoid it.

Indeed. And that is what makes the game interesting. We are all mashed together in the same space and have to deal with one another… one way… or another.

Dude… have you ever shot at a cockroach with a shotgun?!? It is actually good fun! Mostly because the odds of hitting it never seem to improve beyond 50/50! :smiley:

Okay, okay… serious answers. The point varies from person to person.

  • Profitability: There is a 50/50 chance of loot dropping. If one can gank a ship that is carrying enough cargo of sufficient value (to both offset the cost of their ganking ship and make a profit) then they will do it.
  • Sending a message: Someone, somewhere does not like you or someone else like you. Their motive is to make it known that THEY are the threat and are to be taken seriously (yes… destroying a tiny ship of an unknown player can instill fear in others… and that is the point).
  • For the lolz: Think the Joker from the Dark Knight. These are the people who want the world to burn and thrive in chaos. They WANT you to react poorly. They WANT you to fight back. And they WANT to fill all the spaces on their ships-killed-BINGO scorecard.
  • Some combination of the above.

Regardless of the intent, the tactics and tips I outlined above should help you stack the odds more in your favor and avoid being ganked in the future.
And yes… everyone’s first gank is always awful. Your are allowed to be pissed.

Now the question is this: What will you do now?

Will you dust yourself off and try to meet the new challenge that has appeared before you “head on.”
Or will you withdraw further and avoid doing things because you fear what may happen?

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34

Uh-oh…ShahFluffer’s gotten into the cooking sherry again…

OP, here’s a message from the ccp that once was:

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35

Excuse you!

I am a man(?) of culture.

I simply swim in the mash tank for a bit until I achieve the desired effect. :wink:

36

regularly i see some posts like OP, full of whining, complaining and blaming CCP and others, and i loose faith in human being… sorry, in new eve players
But fortunately, guys like Shah, Xuxe, Scoots and others give me back some faith
They are like James Brown here (see the following video, watch from 04:00). So, OP, can you be John Belushi? CAN YOU SEE THE LIGHT, STOP WHINING AND HTFU?

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37

To be fair, having one’s preconceived notions about how something works AND losing a whole bunch of stuff at the same time is… disheartening… to say the least.

Yes, yes… the OP should have known better due to EVE’s reputation. But the damage has been done and there is no point in rubbing salt in the wounds.

Instead, when I see posts like the OPs, I try to take on the role of “amusing educator” and point out what he/she could have done differently. Sprinkle in some tips and tricks.

Now… if the OP continues shedding tears and being obstinate… they are fair game in my book.

tldr: Let the OP be angry. Take the high road and be helpful. Troll if the OP if he/she shows a consistent pattern of being a douche.

To the newbies reading this thread:

  • It is okay to be angry when things go sideways and/or you are nuked
  • You are learning and always will be in this game… don’t be complacent
  • Know that every tactic and trick you encounter has a tactic and trick to mitigate it… you simply have to learn it
  • Ask questions… LOTS of questions
    (note: We vets may be asshats, but we can be helpful asshats if you ask and show a good attitude)
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38

I assume the aggressor was flying a Tornado?

39

The original post reminds me of people who join a group that’s working fine for those already members but want to change it because it doesn’t suit the newcomer.

Eve is not for everyone. I’m not sure it’s for me as I’ve started and given up before and have never gotten very far. But I know that the sense of ever-present danger is a fundamental part of what makes Eve so engaging to many.

But I think the “right” reaction is to find a game that suits you, not to ask that the game be changed.

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40

That is the only way to forum post right :wink:

I didn’t know you still remembered me :rofl:

As for the OP:

RIsk vs Reward dude.

You took a risk, you lost.

Ganking = PvP (as it is one Player shooting another Player)

There are many things you can do to minimize the risk, but in the end, everytime you hit that undock button, you accept the risk of being blown up.

In your case:

  • Insta-dock bookmark
  • Observation bookmark
  • Insta-undock bookmark
  • Multiple, less valuable trips
  • Grab a tanky ship, and put a proper tank on it
  • Don’t use Jita :wink: (I just came back from a 5 year AFK, but even before that, I prefered to shop around that S***hole, I rather pay bit extra to buy stuff or take bit less ISK for my items by shopping around that system)
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