When does a ship become a "Loot Pinata" target in High Sec?

[Dinsdale_Pirannha]

To the OP. This whole thread is a joke. The sociopaths in the ganker society (and I use that term “society” loosely when it comes to these sub-humans) grief people for the sheer joy it brings to their warped senses. Causing pain to others is how they get their jollies. ISK is an afterthought.

Look up how many empty freighter are attacked.

Anyone who posts ISK thresholds and any other “reason” for why these things do what they do is lying, or incredibly naive. And CCP has been complicit in endorsing, even enabling this anti-social behaviour for years. The community manager, or whatever his title is, said on the forums years ago that if he had any development input, high sec would be even more brutal.

It is that kind of thinking that has led to the shrinking paying player-base.

[Gadget_Helmsdottir]

@Dinsdale_Pirannha

And CCP has been complicit in endorsing, even enabling this anti-social behaviour for years.

First…you can’t solo a freighter in HS.
Second… CCP’s complicity of their own game…

Dinsdale, never change.
And stay put.

–Gadget rings the Smoking Man

[Bodega_Cat]

I think that you would agree that Just because theres unpredictability inside of ganking dynamics, you shouldn’t ignore exercising risk mitigations to some extent.

That too, would be naive, right?

[Vortexo_VonBrenner]

*orders extra popcorn supplies

[Rocket_Hellfire]

The answer is When the reward outweighs the risk…and you have the DPS

[Pretentious_Knob]

Any ship. Have even lost empty ships because they can for S$*&s and Giggles

[Eternus8lux8lucis]

Korean Ninja best ninja

That guy was amazing to watch at work quite frankly.

[Gadget_Helmsdottir]

The best answer to the OP is on a day that ends in “Y”.
Live by that, and you’ll never be surprised at a loss.

–Gadget Knows

[DrysonBennington]

Anything that can go up on the kill board would be considered a Loot Pinata.

[Ildrara]

Two scenarios.

1. If the loot drop is possibly worth more than the cost of a bunch of suicide destroyers.

2. If people are bored enough to gank you.

No place in EVE is safe except docked in a station.

[DeMichael_Crimson]

@Charley_Varrick

The existence of kill boards makes it a pinata to some gankers…full or empty.

@Pretentious_Knob

Any ship. Have even lost empty ships because they can for S$*&s and Giggles

@DrysonBennington

Anything that can go up on the kill board would be considered a Loot Pinata.

Yup, any ship and it doesn’t even need to have cargo or be fit, it’s all about the killmail

@Dinsdale_Pirannha

To the OP. This whole thread is a joke. The sociopaths in the ganker society (and I use that term “society” loosely when it comes to these sub-humans) grief people for the sheer joy it brings to their warped senses. Causing pain to others is how they get their jollies. ISK is an afterthought.

Look up how many empty freighter are attacked.

Anyone who posts ISK thresholds and any other “reason” for why these things do what they do is lying, or incredibly naive. And CCP has been complicit in endorsing, even enabling this anti-social behaviour for years. The community manager, or whatever his title is, said on the forums years ago that if he had any development input, high sec would be even more brutal.

It is that kind of thinking that has led to the shrinking paying player-base.

Exactly 100% true, anybody who says otherwise is lying.

[Black_Pedro]

@DeMichael_Crimson

Anyone who posts ISK thresholds and any other “reason” for why these things do what they do is lying, or incredibly naive. And CCP has been complicit in endorsing, even enabling this anti-social behaviour for years. The community manager, or whatever his title is, said on the forums years ago that if he had any development input, high sec would be even more brutal.

It is that kind of thinking that has led to the shrinking paying player-base.

Exactly 100% true, anybody who says otherwise is lying.

Come now. While it is true that ships get attacked and destroyed for all sorts of reasons, a cursory glance at the killboards will tell you that the majority, perhaps the vast majority, that are criminally exploded in highsec are done for direct profit. Certainly most of the attacks on haulers done in the trade hubs and pipes are done because someone things they can turn a profit.

This is a demonstrable fact. Sure, some attacks - like Burn Jita or the Code protection racket are done for greater, more intricate sandbox reasons, but still a large amount of attacks in highsec are simple piracy in a game which features the possibility of piracy as an intended feature.

People are not necessarily out to make you feel bad - in fact most times they are not. That paranoia and pessimism of your fellow player is on you.

Now to the OP, as has been explained the game mechanics set a threshold where you will be profitable to gank. Usually though, just being a profitable mark isn’t enough to attract attention and a loot piñata would be someone who is risking something eye-catching like in the billions of ISK to the pirates. Still, there are always new pirates starting out who might take a shot at a smaller number, or ones bored after a failed session unable to find any big fish, or ones just collecting killmails so always fly defensively.

[DireTurnack]

[Machariel, KingMach]
Domination Gyrostabilizer
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Gecko x2

Arch Angel EMP L x7500

my alt’s been flying around this between jita/amarr and beyond for 2 years now and not once has it died, and that is a 7B machariel

dunno how these other yo-yo’s die maybe they afk flying

[Dinsdale_Pirannha]

@Black_Pedro

@DeMichael_Crimson

Anyone who posts ISK thresholds and any other “reason” for why these things do what they do is lying, or incredibly naive. And CCP has been complicit in endorsing, even enabling this anti-social behaviour for years. The community manager, or whatever his title is, said on the forums years ago that if he had any development input, high sec would be even more brutal.

It is that kind of thinking that has led to the shrinking paying player-base.

Exactly 100% true, anybody who says otherwise is lying.

Come now. While it is true that ships get attacked and destroyed for all sorts of reasons, a cursory glance at the killboards will tell you that the majority, perhaps the vast majority, that are criminally exploded in highsec are done for direct profit. Certainly most of the attacks on haulers done in the trade hubs and pipes are done because someone things they can turn a profit.

This is a demonstrable fact. Sure, some attacks - like Burn Jita or the Code protection racket are done for greater, more intricate sandbox reasons, but still a large amount of attacks in highsec are simple piracy in a game which features the possibility of piracy as an intended feature.

People are not necessarily out to make you feel bad - in fact most times they are not. That paranoia and pessimism of your fellow player is on you.

Now to the OP, as has been explained the game mechanics set a threshold where you will be profitable to gank. Usually though, just being a profitable mark isn’t enough to attract attention and a loot piñata would be someone who is risking something eye-catching like in the billions of ISK to the pirates. Still, there are always new pirates starting out who might take a shot at a smaller number, or ones bored after a failed session unable to find any big fish, or ones just collecting killmails so always fly defensively.

You are a liar. Plain and simple. You are a liar.
The “greater, more intricate sandbox reasons” are simply the sick jollies these sociopaths get destroying the game for others. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Black_Pedro

This is a demonstrable fact. Sure, some attacks - like Burn Jita or the Code protection racket are done for greater, more intricate sandbox reasons, but still a large amount of attacks in highsec are simple piracy in a game which features the possibility of piracy as an intended feature.

Exactly. Even a group like CODE will pick the fat juicy target over the empty freighter. If they have a choice between ganking a freighter with 7 billion or a an empty freighter they’ll pick the 7 billion because the 3.5 billion in loot that is expected to drop will buy alot of destroyers and even a respectable amount of hounds.

@Dinsdale_Pirannha

You are a liar. Plain and simple. You are a liar.

Actually no. Looking through the killboards for any freighter will support @Black_Pedro’s position. Yes, empty freighter still die, but if you further take out war decs, and even some of the more dubious kills (e.g. a single cruiser kills a charon say–i.e. most likely cause was some sort of flag), and take out losses with double wrapped containers…the number of empty freighter ganks is small outside of Burn Jita types of events.

@Dinsdale_Pirannha

The “greater, more intricate sandbox reasons” are simply the sick jollies these sociopaths get destroying the game for others. Nothing more, nothing less.

And again here we see the psychosis of Dinsdale. Funny Dracvlad scolded me for asserting you have…“issues”…but when you call people sociopaths for blowing up pixels…yeah you have issues.

[DeMichael_Crimson]

I’ve been an active member of the forums for almost as long as my character’s 10 year life. In the first half of my career as a Capsuleer I rarely ever saw threads posted about Suicide Ganking. During that time there were lot’s of threads posted about Can Flipping and Hulkageddon.

After the Hulkageddon sprees were discontinued, threads started appearing about ‘Loot Pinata’ transport ships being ganked en-route to major trade hubs. Within the past 4 years that action has escalated exponentially to where now most any ship on autopilot will be Suicide Ganked, regardless of it’s cargo or ship fit.

It’s all due to Killmail whoring in an attempt to prove themselves as being good at Eve.

[Australian_Excellence]

I love wasting 4bil of Talos on an empty Jump Freighter xdcxDXDXDXDXDXD

(I’m a pretty big deal)

[DeMichael_Crimson]

4bil of Talos

Yeah you’re a big deal alright, in your own mind.

[Teckos_Pech]

@DeMichael_Crimson

Within the past 4 years that action has escalated exponentially to where now most any ship on autopilot will be Suicide Ganked, regardless of it’s cargo or ship fit.

A statement without even a shred of evidence to support it.

So I went and grabbed the Obelisk losses from January 15th.

We can toss out the one in low sec. Being engaged and killed in LS is not a gank.

So we only 3 left. The one ganked in Sivala clearly was a gank. Nearly 10 billion in loot according to zkillboard. Clearly that freighter pilot took on a huge amount of risk. Clearly the ex ante expectation for loot was just under 5 billion ISK. What about the other two.

The one killed in Niarja was taken out by 2 thrashers. Clearly not a gank. Most likely a flag of some sort–i.e. player error.

The loss in Jita…war dec.

Hmmm. Not a single empty freighter ganked.

Lets go back to the 14th. What do we see. Quite a few more kills.

We have 8 dead obelisks. We can toss the LS and NS kills that leaves 6. The one killed in Madirmilire had 9.3 billion in cargo value. Whoops another foolish and imprudent pilot taking on crap tons of ISK and getting ganked. An expensive lesson.

The kill in Uedama has 4.13 billion in ISK and was ganked by CODE. Clearly not empty. The second one ganked in Uedama 3.59 in cargo value, so clearly not empty.

Uh-oh…that third one looks suspicious with only 1.16 billion and killed by CODE. Was there a war dec? Nope. Was there anything in the hold like a double wrapped item? Nope. Lets go ahead and call this one an empty gank.

The fourth kill in Uedama…3.39 billion or an expected drop of about 1.7 billion. Clearly not empty.

And the last one…killed by P I R A T, almost surely a war dec…and I click the link and yep, a war dec kill.

So, what do we have? We have 9 Obelisk losses in HS of which 1 was an empty freighter gank. What we do not see is how many obelisks moved through choke points like Niarja and Uedama on a daily basis even an hourly basis.

And right now it is Burn Jita. Goons have at least 1 huge ass fleet shooting just about anything that is a freighter, JF, orca, and even other stuff (they ganked a vargur that was dueling with a paladin on the 4-4 undock). And yet freighter after freighter is moving through those above noted systems.

In short, DeMichael Crimson has zip for data. Not even a half-assed attempt like I did at looking at the killboards. He has crafted a narrative that is completely divorced from reality and no matter how much evidence to the contrary he will not change his narrative at all. At the very least he has a severe problem with dogmatism.

[Chainsaw_Plankton]

@Teckos_Pech

So, what do we have? We have 9 Obelisk losses in HS of which 1 was an empty freighter gank. What we do not see is how many obelisks moved through choke points like Niarja and Uedama on a daily basis even an hourly basis.

this conversation pops up a lot and I usually go check zkill for recent empty freighter losses and it’s typically pretty rare. Zkill is running a bit slow right now so I can’t check now, but I typically see a handful of ganks in uedama or niarja. Almost every time I’m in a trade pipeline I see a bunch of freighters moving through. And out of all my courier contracts I only recently lost the first one to a gank, and he was carrying a bunch of other contracts too.

@Black_Pedro

Now to the OP, as has been explained the game mechanics set a threshold where you will be profitable to gank. Usually though, just being a profitable mark isn’t enough to attract attention and a loot piñata would be someone who is risking something eye-catching like in the billions of ISK to the pirates. Still, there are always new pirates starting out who might take a shot at a smaller number, or ones bored after a failed session unable to find any big fish, or ones just collecting killmails so always fly defensively.

Fly defensively is exactly it.