Ever since CCP changed how ECM works, the Griffin navy, Caldari blops, Caldari recons and Caldari electronic attack ships have become pretty obsolete. Tengu electronic subsystem prices are also ridiculously low because nobody uses them anymore. T1 Caldari ECM ships are still relatively fine, since blackbirds have the range to avoid attacks, scorpions have the tank and griffins are dirt cheap sacrificial goats.
I propose reverting ECM changes for only T2/T3 caldari ships with bonuses to ecm, as well as for the griffin navy. Make it a misc bonus, where anything that is jammed cannot target the jammer.
Previously, a large part of the ECM problem was 300k isk griffins being able to jam out 25 sensor strength t3c’s or capitals (fighters), and that is fairly OP for such a low isk investment. Now, in order to accomplish the same thing as in the past people would need to invest at least 60m, into an kitsune in order to accomplish the same thing a griffin was able to do in the past.
TL;DR Make T2 ECM ships worthwhile to fly, right now you pay 200x the price for basically no improvement. Also fix the griffin navy so it’s not just a shitty comet.
Edit: Also make ECM tengus a thing again, nobody uses them now
That would be fine just there
Works for me, 300k griffins were lovely
This is a case of - a mechanic wasn’t broken, actually had counters, etc… but because people cried enough because IT WAS FRUSTRATING, entirely broke ECM in the game.
This is what happens when emotion drives decision making instead of finding logical counters - oh wait a whole skill was designed to make a characters ship harder to jam, and oh yeah there are implants as well.
Yeas I agree, fix something that wasnt broke and now fix what you broke to begin with.
Is that all? I made that while at work.
In my experience more felt ECM was broke before the fix than who thought it was not.
Of course, after such changes those who feel it was not broke will be more vocal now.
I’m still somewhat undecided. Need to see how players adapt to the change for awhile longer.
Too much solo players opinions here? Fleets are what this change was for.
ECM is better now than it was before, becuase it was broken as ■■■■ before in small scale engagement’s, no one likes becoming completely useless just because someone pressed f1 and went afk.
If you want a buff then the ecm ship ecming the target should reduce incoming damage from said jammed target by 25-40% or something then ecm = tuant, a tanking e-war.
But in exchange it needs to operate 100% in falloff with only 1km optimal so it cant sit 100kms off, so that to be effective you need skill to know how close to be to your target according to how strong their sensor strength is.
I agree, there are too many solo players who expect to jam their opponent and dominate the fight.
They decided ECM shouldn’t guarantee who wins a solo encounter, and made it into a fleet support tool. Now you jam a target, while your friends beat them up, and while your friends try to keep you alive b/c the target can only shoot back at you.
They also reduced the effectiveness of Remote Reps to encourage fleet support rather than a single heal boat. I’d like to see diminishing returns on Neuts next. After ECM, they’re the next culprit for solo PvP iWin buttons.
I mean the entire rest of ewar still works solo.
If you use ewar drones you are mad OP with flexibility. Ewar still is op’d for solo just seems many solo ewar goons dont know how to use it.
@Alistair_Atreides @Makshima_Shogo @Marcus_Gideon While your opinions are taken into consideration, I’m gonna have to write them off as invalid and irrelevant
In all seriousness, why is it ok for a 300m amarr recon to neut out your entire cap at 30km , or a 300m gal/min recon to stop you from warping/moving at 70km, yet it’s not ok for a 300m (probably like 150m now) caldari ship to stop you from shooting at 30km?
Curse/pilgrim neuts will shut off lasers/hybrids completely, as well as decimate any ship that relies on active repping. As an added bonus, without any cap the utility midslots would be pretty useless as well
Previously, falcon/rook would shut off all weapon systems except drones, as well as utility midslots, but it leaves tanking capabilities alone.
Now, we have squishy T2 recons that have less jamming range than the t1 variant at 30x the cost.
Yes, but isn’t that the same with a curse zapping your cap away from 30km? Suddenly, you can’t shoot your guns if you’re flying a gal/amarr ship, you lose both your weapon systems, utility midslots AND your repping capabilities. Targetting the ship neuting you doesn’t help if you can’t shoot them anyways
All ECM does is take out your utility mids and weapon systems while leaving your reps alone.
In real life radar jammers are extremely vulnerable. Soooooooo
In fact the whole concept of jamming ability to lock target is by blasting that targeter with a loud. Noise that is EASILY targetable.
Be thankful they don’t give Instalock on ECMs.
We also don’t have FTL engines, but space magic
The problem with e-war is that they need a way to beat them tactically with good flying, like for damp’s you can burn in closer to counter them and with neut’s you can offline your mwd or sacrifice some rep in order to get more cycles off on your gun’s or for tracking disruptors you can fly in a straight line to reduce transversal but ecm you couldn’t do anything you just had to sit and wait for a gap.
You are saying ECM is useless becuase they can shoot you back, but you are stopping your jammed target from shooting your allies which is useful as hell, if you could tank that damage then it would be no problem and would allow the agressor some way to tactically counter by committing 100%, burning into you and just going face first guns to the wall blazing in order to try and get out alive.
So the problem now with ecm ship’s is they are useless solo (Griffen navy, Rook) But if ECM decreased incoming damage then they would be somewhat strong.
Imagine ECM ship’s becoming the tackle of champion’s you have a super important ship that you don’t want to die, Griffen navy tackle to the rescue face tanking your enemies like a boss, while under reps.
Based on how jamming actually works I vote ECM jammers get instalocked by anyone
With just a single rf large cap battery, and a full rack of dark blood medium energy neuts you can nope 1800 GJ of energy every 10s for a bit over 5 mins in a otherwise t2 fit curse
in about 30 seconds (neuts hit at the start of every cycle), an megathrone can’t rep or hit you anymore.
with another curse friend, the battleship is dry in just 10 seconds
Yeah, lemme just tactically offline my mwd and sacrifice my rep oh wait i have no cap regardless. Even with a cap booster fit, you won’t get much dps with your guns shutting off every few seconds and your reps will be able to cycle only once for every cap booster.
Cruisers are just instanoped, and the fit isn’t even that blingy.
With my 70km rapier webs, i’ll just prevent someone from moving while my cynabal friends snipe at whoever’s unlucky enough to be caught. Of course, with a 70km arazu point to keep them from escaping.
Lemme get my 30km falcon out and oh welp it’s gone should’ve used a 70km blackbird
T2 caldari ewar is literally worse than T1 caldari ewar now
ECM was nerfed . Shortly after abyss PvP came about. Coincidence?
Let me restate. Jamming works by signal-blooming. Loud noise drowning out active signal returns.
Be thankful CCP doesnt just make ECMs autolocked.
For game mechanics. Find other ways to solo ewar.
Eve is never about pigeonholing but about different tools for different situations.
Nobody liked that guy in Mortal Kombat who just spammed uppercut all the time.
If you want that boring ■■■■ go to WoW and spam one key in your raid for 10 hours casting fireball over and over cuz it works.