Why aren’t the Triglavian Collective allied with, or formally recognised by, the other nations?

It appears that they agree with most of the same issues as the other nations (drifters, sansha, drones…) and all that they’re doing is having an expansionary phase, like an Amarr Reclaiming. What do you think? I did an article on my (nascent) blog: https://tetracontadigon.blogspot.com/

Well, they invaded the sovereign territory of all four empires out of the blue, so they kind of burnt all their bridges as a result. It doesn’t appear that the Triglavians have any understanding of diplomacy, or thought solely in terms of their Darwinian-esque cultural lens. Maybe they just can’t communicate properly since both sides are still learning each other’s languages. In any case, surrendering Pochven back to the empires, or something equivalent to that, would almost certainly be a prerequisite to any immediate restoration of diplomatic relations. You don’t just take land and expect the other side to just give up unless you’re going all in for total victory and be free to demand whatever you want, or negotiate concessions while you’re ahead.

There’s plenty of territorial disputes in real life that demonstrates that taking land from someone else isn’t something that’s easily entertained in the modern world, such as Israel’s occupation of the West Bank, Nagorno-Karabakh, or Russia’s annexation of Crimea from Ukraine. Of course, this is a game set in the distant future, so maybe the rules of geopolitics have changed in New Eden, but I doubt it.

1 Like

The Flow of Vyraj does not allow it. The other Empires are not Triglav, not Proven, certainly not Sobernost.

Wrong

They are beginning to. It was mostly a result of their sudden invasion, which was performed itself out of a sense of urgency. Lore is somewhat sparse on the subject, but it seems like “stabilizing the Ancient Domains”, that is, undoing the damage Seylin caused, is key to ending the invasion of Drifters into the Abyss. Pochven itself is not really an attempt to expand their territory, but rather it seems like a basis for a spaciotemporal restoration project.

To address some answers posted above, we have very clear lore that the Triglavians have a concept of diplomacy, even going as far as establishing an alliance with rogue drones intelligent enough to grasp the concept themselves and contribute to their Proving. Their philosophy isn’t remotely Darwinian in any capacity, but rather reliant on constant dialectics in order to assess the value of concepts. This can take the form of combat, such as in abyssal deadspace, to assess tactics and military equipment, or plain debates for more abstract concepts. This is what they universally refer to as “Proving”.
They perform a form of Cladistic Proving to assess foreign entities as well. Drifters were mistaken for an invading force sent by the Second Jove Empire at first and designated an enemy. After a few skirmishes they realized that they were an anomalous continuation of their now collapsed ancient enemy, but their status as a paramount enemy remained unchanged. Their contact with Rogue Drones was pretty troubled as well, with the drones attacking some infrastructure owned by a subclade of Svarog. The Convocation was divided on the subject, with Svarog advocating for their designation as Poshlost, Veles instead wanting to pursue diplomatic action and Perun remaining undecided and desiring more data before they make a decision. In the end they determined that different drones exhibit different levels of sentience, and the decided upon policy was to co-operate with those capable with the rest designated simply as “vermin” and destroyed. The Empires thus far have not been named Poshlost or really any kind of enemy, instead called “foreign narodnya”. With the confirmations that the themed proving grounds events are the result of diplomatic outreach from the empires, it is likely that now that the emergency of requiring Pochven is passed, they are more willing to assess each and every empire so that relations may develop.

2 Likes

Narratively, from outside of the lore perspective, this is because the Triglavian storyline was more Mysterious Invading Aliens than First Contact, as far as story tropes go.

Of course, Mysterious Alien Invaders can stay mysterious only for so long, so hopefully the story progresses somewhere beyond in the future. (Yes, I do realize I’ve said this same about Drifters/Sleepers and Rogue Drones too but sue me.)

1 Like

I hadn’t thought about the Proving Grounds- that’s interesting!

Turns out when you invade someone’s territory it harms relations.

For sure, yes - though the need to do such a thing was brought about by the intrusion of the Drifters into Abyssal Deadspace, which spurred their entire civilization to unanimously work together to return to New Eden in the capacity they have and set up a claim for themselves, as they’re no longer safe alone in the depths (since everyone else has started to reach there).

As for relations, there have been some direct teases that diplomacy is happening with even the empires themselves, like how the Minmatar were rumored to have met with them in the setup of the Rifter proving that happened. I think the silence is more a consequence of development with them slowing as much as it has, more than being representative of their position in the world now - and I hope their relations with others (as well as how they themselves live) can be described more visibly sooner rather than later.

1 Like

Yeah, it would be unlike the minmatar to toss the rest of empire under the bus and then stand there dumbfounded when they also get screwed over.

In fairness, each of the Empires seem to be contacting the Trigs and working with them in some capacity lately in their proving grounds during each of their national holidays we’ve seen, as well as in other ways (from some world news, these lines below):

Caldari House of Records Refuses to Comment on CONCORD Whistleblower Claims of Involvement in EDENCOM Diplomacy with Triglavians

Republic Protests at Report Amarr Briefing Discussed Using “Penal Troops and Gladiators” in Triglavian Proving Grounds

Sources close to Sanmatar Maleatu Shakor suggest that tenuous and erratic diplomatic contact with the Triglavian Collective has been attempted, and led to an “opportunity to show the Triglavians what the best Minmatar capsuleer fighters can do.”

And of all the Empires, the Minmatar indeed probably are the most like the Triglavians’ own culture - fiercely independent tribes, each with their own disagreements and feelings toward one another, all cooperating in the face of external threats for the greater good of their people as a whole.

None of it seems to be deference to the Trigs, moreso just meeting on more equal and diplomatic grounds - since they’re obviously here to stay.

That just sounds like the minmatar are. Caldari didn’t admit to any such involvement and the amarr are just discussing the possibility.

That’s fair - though we also know EDENCOM is doing their own potential diplomacy, and we actually got a real interesting factoid forever ago that revealed that the high-ranking Amarr and Caldari guys who used to be associates in some intriguing old business, seen in the Sine Wave Omega chronicle, were put in charge of their cultural intelligence group. I think there’s a lot that’s been laid out where the Trigs could easily be given a lot of exposition, if there’s the time on CCP’s side to flesh things out.

4 Likes