There is no true random.
RNG is determined by a % chance, and hence is not truly random.
If RNG was truly random, any outcome, no matter how improbable, could be possible.
ok, then weāll just chalk this up to semantics/autism.
1 Like
Actually there is. This is an MMO standard. Even CCP has stated the have drop rates, they just dont tell us what they are in % formula or what is on the loot tables but that they have them, adjust them and keep track of them.
Please stop. Its not doing you any good.
just because there is RNG doesnt mean there is nothing else.
if we find patterns in the drop values or in the signature appearance that show the drop values do not have same statistics according to time.
And then those patterns are repeated on a monthly basis.
Should we discard those pattern ?
For those that are interested in some of the brightest talking about games and gaming.
Go ahead and do so, if you wish.
I would be very surprised, and upset, to see evidence that CCP reduces loot drops in relation to how often you run site x or y, or that spawn rates are reduced the more they are run.
I dont, and wont, believe it is so, until I see evidence.
10m isā¦ generous, to say the least. If you ignore the drone sized drones, you can burn through a site in only a few minutes. Still a heavy time investment by any relative standard though.
1 Like
The question here is : what is an evidence ?
sometimes I scan a whole region. I bm all the sigs.
I do the scan several times in a row, so I notice all new sigs. I do the ded, sleeper and ghost sites (I have ships parked in several stagings to reduce travel times). Then I can tell around which time did the sigs appear.
Sometimes I can see that almost 0 sig appears for an hour - or several hours. then many new sig appear all together.
If you want evidence, then you have to create your own protocol and to make your own experiments. With your own time. I made mine, I used MY time to make experiments, and according to what I observed the SIGNATURE have different rate of appearance according to time. We exchanged different data with friends and statistically we observed the same biases to ded loots.
Maybe we are all wrong. Maybe all the sigs were hidden in a system we didnāt notice. Maybe in a wh that is considered by the game as part of the region(there is not according to the SDE but it may be wrong). Maybe we made several mistakes. Maybe the fact that we observe the experiment changed its result.
But still, there is no evidence that CCP does not have the loot probability changed with time and actually limited on a periodic basis - what we observed hints to the opposite.
The algorithm whereby spawns are distributed is unclear.
Current speculation with varying degrees of proof are:
- There is a fixed, constant number of spawns.
- When one site is completed, it immediately respawns elsewhere.
- That the location of the next spawn attempts to move further outward from the galactic center, in 3dimensional space.
- When extreme periphery sites are completed, they respawn again closer to the galactic center.
- Rinse repeat.
- Nobody outside CCP has the foggiest idea how WH sites are cycled.
To test whether loot drops are scaled according to how many of that site you have run, or how long since you completed the last one, would take years to compile any statistically relevant data vs RNG.
We dont know if loot is generated when the site is spawned, or when the object is destroyed, or when its opened up to loot, depending on the case. Cargo scanning will show the loot on structures, but I dont know about active NPC ships, nor whether they pre-exist the scan.
Occamās Razor would suggest they are generated by RNG means, when the site is created for lootable structures, and on conversion of a ship/structure into a lootable wreck when its turned into a wreck. CCP nominally shouldnt care who completes the site or causes the generation of the loot (except for suspect flag if it wasnt you in HS), nor adjust loot according to that.
I dont think we concretely know whether RNG applied across all sites of that type, or whether its rolled individually when the above occurs. We can however deduce the latter is rational from years of various tests, such that if someone else completes the same site somewhere else and gets drop X, it in no way affects your own sites completion chance of dropping you X loot too.
TLDR: Dont worry about it. Just run as many sites as you can. Its extremely unlikely that you will get more screwed for drops the more you run them, or that you would have to stop running them for X time inorder to improve your loot chance.
Just thought Iād share that yesterday and now again today I got the same Glacial Drift SKIN.
Same SKIN, 2 days in a row.
If they are I think itās ok, Iām glad they did a sort of sliding scale prize layout, too many farmers pushing out younger players whom could really use the ISK to get started.
Iām sorry if thatās what you understood ; I donāt think you get more screwed for drops the more you run them. I however have nothing that tells me otherwise so I donāt have an opinion on the topic.
For deadspace I think you are limited in the number
of drop that you can have on a period of time.
I though at first that the loot table were homogeneous in time and space ; then people told me when and where to farm and letās just say it multiplied my hourly gain. No exact number, because the difference in gain was so obvious I didnāt even think of making values. This made me think those people had specific knowledge of spawn mechanisms and loot drops, and after some discussion I also went to the conclusion they also can modify it in a way. But maybe I am wrong of course.
For event sites I think you get more loot if more people participate in the event.
However I didnāt propose this personal interpretation because nobody asked me, so I only agreed I noticed a modification of loot when my alt was here or not. It also seemed to me I had better drops when I competed with other people in sites. But I didnāt make number, so maybe I am wrong all along.
I am not here to defend my opinion
on how CCP makes his algorithms, actually it would be better for me to know it and not share it.
So I just point out things that I think are on point, while of course I may as well not be able to understand the topic (because biases and missing data). So when people claim that the drops are homogeneous on time, space, or player, I think this is not obvious.
all false. RNG is RNG.
2 Likes
[pedantic mode]
RNG is pseudo-RNG.
[/pedantic mode]
2 Likes
I did 2 DeDs yesterday both were lvl 4s and they dropped the exact same module that wasnāt cheap. The time between doing them was a few hours at most. However it might be that there are just less sights overall total in general, seems that way at least.
The event is different, I too got an accelerator off the very first hive I killed like others have reported. Only got like 25 skins and 3 bpcs and none were copies. Wont be doing more since I have all the accelerators I want now.
Firstly
The OP just compared the loot drop between old style and new style modes.
I remember the DED signature spawns and their loot during the last spring.
Secondly
Donāt mix the spawn rates of different signatures like Relic/Data sites, Gas Sites, WH, combat anomalies and Event beacons - they are different. WH signatures are technically bridges between far systems - they serve a communication role (players should be able to get there at any time) with minimal influence on EVE economy. When you close a WH signature, another one should open in this WH to serve as a communication bridge.
The more profitable is a signature or combat anomaly the more restrictions it has on spawn/drop quota. The rarest are high level Relic/Data sites and special combat signatures like Outposts, Facilities etc.
Thirdly
The most interesting things happens around drop/spawn generation algorithms.
In my opinion, the algorithm is partially known and itās distributed under hyperbolic decline criteria in long time perspective with some RNG spike deviations in the short time perspective. The Y-axis defines spawn rates or drop chance. The X-axis defines time or quantity.
My observations:
- after a site is closed it will open again somewhere (in this region or in a RNG system overall NPC domain like Angel, Sansha, Guristas (obviously an Angel site canāt spawn in Serpentis space) under defined hyperbolic quota aka a WH will spawn with 100% chance, Gas Site will span with a 80% chance while a good Relic/Combat site will spawn with a 30% chance, based on the current quota.
- different sites have own distribution āpowerā algorithms like PI harvesting in Hi-Sec, Low-Sec and Null/WH-space.
- my hypothesis is: the elite rat is spawned by RNG function while dropped loot is generated by another hyperbolic decline quota algorithm.
- my hypothesis is: the hyperbolic decline algorithm is linked to a region and not to a capsuleer. Everybody who loot in that region will get something generated by that algorithm. I performed sites in Hi-Sec, Low-Sec, NPC Null-Space and SOV-Space. The most profitable algorithm for Relic/Data is in Stain and close Sansha space, while other Null-Sec regions are also profitable, but with more abrupt āalgorithm shapeā.
About this stuff can say only players which periodically performed a lot of different sites during long time. A player which performed 2-3 sites once per week/month can get a RNG spike deviations in the short time perspective. In my case, itās not ok to perform 5 Relic Sites in a row L3 and 2 Relic Sites L4 in Low-Sec space by looting carbon, scrap metals overall 3M ISK junk per site first day, while next day to get 8M ISK from a L2 Relic Site in Hi-Sec. Another example, sometimes I can loot from a row of Vigils, Outposts, Colonies, Expedition DED goods like B-Type, C-Type, faction stuff - Shield Boosters, Shield Hardeners, AB, MWD, Armor Repairing and Resistances. Suddenly the loot set is changed to DED B- and C-Type Remote Shield and Armor Repair modules, Shield Amplifiers and then to Officer loot boxes only and scrap metal.
When I get an Expedition like Angel Red Light, Sansha Narcotic Facility 5/10 (is hard like 9/10) to a far Low-Sec system, Iām performing a couple of High-Sec sites. If the loot is like that Remote blah blah blah then I decline to fly my 400M ISK ship there to sit in that pocket under Combat Probes during 40mins, just to get a 46M ISK Officer box and a Shield Amplifier B-Type for 4M ISK.
Consequences:
- I donāt argue vs these limitation, but itās kind of unfair to have this mechanic implemented in most regions for specified players game mode, while in Delve ISK-printing and mining (none RNG) goes above 10T per month!!!
- players which donāt care about ganking, FW, sitting in stations, mining have a veeery limited content. Who likes to roam 20 systems by scanning 5 Signatures in each (3 WH and 2 Gas sites) to get just one scrap site where a sneaky trap is settled. A motivation to log out;
- players should change their daily playstyle - perform a couple of sites and switch to mining or missions;
- a stable and good in game ISK/RISK per time is Null-Sec ratting in Cap ships, FW and Missinons L4/5 (LP stores).
1 Like
If I understood correctly, that could also mean that Relic/Data sites of the type that spawn in Stain may have a different loot content algorithm than sites elsewhere, or traffic of running sites is less in Stain, meaning you found more sites/hr, or that Stain occupies a ābottleneckā in 3d space where sites seek to re-spawn outwards from the galactic center.
No the reason Sansha space is the most profitable is because its relic sites are the only that you can get intact armor plates from.
1 Like
Ive been a combat site runner for most of my career. If i got less the more I ran I woulda stopped running them years ago. Turns out i get āsomethingā worth keeping every time I head out into the abyss. Duplicate drops happen. Spawns with nothing happen. Sometimes you wont even get a spawn. Even weird stuff like logging off at your pos and logging back in 100k from it and it shooting you happens. I just keep going. Strings of nothing seem like the norm until you get that string of YES YES YES!
3 Likes
Loot content algorithm includes what drops from those specific types of sites.
Hence āloot contentā.
Sorry if I was unclear.