Also regarding this incident, I was sent a crazy email from somebody, it is not true about the structure though, I had already gone back to pickup my items from Jita, and the bump resulted in me being SD:
Issues with docking
Howdy!
I’m the current President of the New Eden Bumpers Union and I felt it necessary to discuss the recent event with you. I noticed that you were attempting to dock in a station, but found yourself being bumped out of docking range by me.
I’m not sure if you knew this but that station is under quarantine due to a recent freak accident involving 2 Fedo and 1 cup. I’m glad that I managed to save you from imminent harm.
If you have more questions or are interested in paying a monthly fee to have the New Eden Bumpers Union protect you with our alternate form of ‘ELITE PVP’, please feel free to contact me.
This is both the wrong forum for that (this forum section is for newbies to ask questions and become better) and your perception on how the game “should be” is based largely on misinformation and lack of want to adapt or change (the onus is on the player to find the information they need, figure things out, and apply it for their own benefit).
Going down the points…
High-sec space has never been a “safe place.” Ever. It was never designed to be. At all.
In fact… no part of the game was designed to be “truly safe” in any real sense. Even in station you can be “attacked” through your wallet (see: people can buy all the products being sold in a station and then resell them at 50000% markup… yes, this has happened before).
What you see as a “design flaw” was purposefully built into the game itself from the very start (some 12 years ago) and has been more or less maintained that way.
Inter-player conflict or cooperation was the design intent from the game. Both aspects work for and against each other to create interesting situations that players must work for and against (see: adapt).
How people go about it is up to them. No tactics or behavior, unless it violates the Terms of Service or End User License Agreement, is off the table.
“As a new player” nothing. War means exactly that; WAR. It is pretty straightforward. As was the message that is automatically sent when war was declared on you.
I remember my early days as a newbie. My corporation had war declared on it and my immediate reaction was, "oh ■■■■… does this mean someone can shoot me now?"
I looked up “wars in EVE Online” and confirmed with with other corp members.
You are not special here. No one is. Whether they are a defender, aggressor, or third party… the mechanics apply the same for everyone.
Jita has the largest market, yes. But in being the largest market hub it also carries the largest potential risk for traders as predators will be attracted to where the most “honey” is.
Again… there are no “safe places.”
The economy in EVE depends on war and war depends on the economy. Those modules and weapons you bought? Probably made or scavenged by the same people who shot you.
You DO have the option to “surrender.” It is called "dropping out of the corporation."
See… the thing about corporations in EVE is that they are nothing like “guilds” in other games. Here, they actually mean something.
Making a corporation is effectively declaring to others that you want to play with the “big boys” and have all the benefits of a corporation (escaping taxes, building structures, name recognition, etc).
The last incarnation of the bounty system did have certain “prerequisites” that needed to be met.
However those requisites pretty much made it impossible to put a bounty on someone who deserved a bounty outside of those parameters (ex. stealing everything in a corporation, spying, scouting, being a third party helper to an engagement, buying out everything on the market for giggles, being a genuine asshat, etc).
But that is moot point. The bounty system doesn’t really carry any real weight with it because if it did, it would be extremely abusable (there is a lot more to this subject than you may realize).
Ship bumping? That subject has been beaten to death. The DEVs more or less ruled that it is okay unless people do it for an extended period of time for no reason (keeping a target off balance is sufficient reason).
Plus, your solution was countered in many threads (see: people can easily turn it around and use it against people).
I am not even going to pretend to understand what you wrote about programming language. But trust me, any system you create I can find a way to turn it around and use it against you.
It has been done in the past and it will be done in the future. Better to keep things simple and straightforward rather than over complicate things in a way that only veterans will be able to decypher.
There is no such thing as a “fair fight” in EVE.
Anything you can do as a single player, a group can do it better. There is nothing unfair about it.
After all… a group of players working together is nothing more than “solo players” who happen to be working towards the same goal.
If you put arbitrary restrictions on group effort… what is the point of grouping up with others?
Hell… I am pretty sure someone would find a loophole in that system too (we are good at that sort of thing here).
I already explained in my post that yes, in a direct engagement you would have lost in any ship regardless of the type.
Now… had you flown an actual ECM-centric ship… fitted for speed and target specific ECM… used an insta-undock bookmark… you would have not only gotten away, but you could have also caused a bit of frustration for them (which I consider a “win” in my book).
The rest of it is just “I don’t like this” and “it should be different” stuff… which, I am going to go on a limb and assume, you are getting by comparing EVE to other games.
EVE isn’t like other games. It is best to forget what you learned out there and play with a fresh mindset (see: “I know nothing and should learn as much as possible”)
Yeah… I don’t say this often… but I don’t think this is your kind of game.
Never use Autopilot, always do manual piloting and use the jump command in the selected items box to go from gate to next gate. Same with stations, just use the dock command in the selected items box.
Your contribution to this thread is above and beyond anything I’ve seen elsewhere. As a three week newbie It’s gold dust.
Anyone new to this game would do well to research it thoroughly before getting confident.
There’s a lot out there - Eve University, a plethora of YouTube videos, this Forum, etc.
My intent is simply to point out that it is pointless to argue “what the mechanics should be” and that it is better to come from the perspective of "what are the mechanics and how can I best utilize them?"
Though… that may not always come out properly (probably because I tend to be in a “voluntary chemical haze” when I peruse these forums ).
Going point by point answering each thing you’ve said would just be another WOT (we already have enough of that… some of it very good @ShahFluffers but I don’t think we need more) so I’m going to (try to) condense my response to you down to a single simile & hope you get it
So this guy walks into a room full of chess geeks & says “I want to play but don’t know the rules, we should change them so all pieces move one space in any direction, that makes more sense to me”
Well, please, do attempt and keep your considerations in context, as I am not arguing that EVE is not fair or that is should always be fair, but that this contrived tactic (thoroughly addressed supra) is unfair and more to the point that there is overlooked programming logic involved; it is akin to having your roaming player trapped by a programming error within a wall or rock structure and having to restart the game all over akin.
Also, there is nothing at all clever, bold, or adept about literally trapping a player who is clearly new and just attempting to make their way about within a designated safe area–clearly abusing the same tired tactic over, and over, and over, and over. Less that they pay their designated tithe for their Mining Permit to the self proclaimed Creator of highsec–OMG, seriously!?
(These are not EVE players, they are zealot extortionists, who are too unskilled to run their three-card Monte scam in other than highsec. …Y’all James 3:15 cohorts need to go read that whole chapter, because your entire alliance is a mockery unto it.) And this is about the dumbest thing I have yet come across; honestly, it really makes me not want to play this game any longer–realizing there are such idiots ruling their contrivances about public realms: www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html
EVE is a fictional game, I have played many such a game in my life, I have a fair concept of game play. I am a self-learned Web developer, I have a fair concept of how coding logic and processes function.
The game of EVE is constantly evolving and existing features being modified, such as the Orca for example.
The way that ship bumping functions now is illogical, you can put lip stick on that pig all you like, but at the end of the day you are still putting makeup on a pig.
The logic that is applied uniformly to other items of offensive equipment while around structures and gates does not follow that of interdictors/webbing equipment, meanwhile there are no currently effective counters to these items within such areas and such items are seemingly far too powerful or overly effective.
I am player, I have an opinion on the matter as do you, just because you have been playing EVE longer than me, does not make you right and me wrong by some perceived EVE gaming superiority.
Not sure what you mean by the first part. Interdictors / webbing equipment have the same restrictions as any other combat modules, around station or otherwise.
I understand you are a player, and your opinion is your right. That said, being a web developer and knowing about code have absolutely nothing to do with the core game mechanics of a game you have little experience with. For instance if i have eaten 1000x as many burgers as you, i am categorically a better person to give advice on burgers than you. This is not “perceived burger eating superiority”, it is actual burger knowledge superiority. Your pig make-up analogy fits well here, since you are decorating a simple concept with extra BS just to make yourself feel better. Having played EvE for countless hours actually does make my opinion on game mechanics more valid than someone who has played for just a few, and understands little about how it all fits together into a bigger picture.
Without experience, opinion is inevitably just conjecture.
Well, not exactly, say while playing a game of chess your opponent suddenly begins smacking your hand with a ball-peen hammer every time you reach for a piece during your turn to advance it, therafter forcing you to flee to the hospital after several attempts at this, that player then proclaiming that the rules don’t say they cannot do it, so they are just and godly.
Ok… going back to my chess analogy, it’s much more like a complete chess novice playing with his grandfather (or any other older player who knows the game), who moves his Queen out into center field straight into the path of a Bishop… and loses it.
He didn’t know Bishops moved like that so he thinks his grandfather cheated, his grandfather who had thought he had a better grasp of the games rules tries to explain them to him…
But he thinks his grandfather is winding him up & won’t believe him.
What happened to you IS game mechanics working as intended & there ARE plenty of ways to avoid it happening (mostly of the “don’t plonk your Queen down invitingly in front of a Bishop” variety), you just have to learn them.
Go back & read what @ShahFluffers has already told you because it’s mostly all in there
Well the thing is… In this version of chess, it actually IS within the rules to smash your hand with a hammer, and it’s up to you to defend yourself against it.
Looking back at the original question, the above quote most adequately summarizes the answer. The victim had a general lack of understanding of the mechanics, believing “high security” = complete security or safe zone. There was a lack of understanding of the war dec mechanics.
The fact that the victim posted this summary means that, through this thread, he/she has gained some knowledge and may avoid such issues in the future. We all learn one way or another, many of us via “the hard way”. Many EVE players can share stories about “that first time entering low sec” or “first time ganked or scammed”. Everyone was a new player at some point.
That’s some serious bling on your ship though. In a game where many consider ships “disposable” and “assume your ship is lost when you undock it”, you’re definitely rolling some serious ISK for, as you call yourself, a new player.
[quote=“Keno_Skir, post:34, topic:21622, full:true”]Not sure what you mean by the first part. Interdictors / webbing equipment have the same restrictions as any other combat modules, around station or otherwise.
I understand you are a player, and your opinion is your right. That said, being a web developer and knowing about code have absolutely nothing to do with the core game mechanics of a game you have little experience with. For instance if i have eaten 1000x as many burgers as you, i am categorically a better person to give advice on burgers than you. This is not “perceived burger eating superiority”, it is actual burger knowledge superiority. Your pig make-up analogy fits well here, since you are decorating a simple concept with extra BS just to make yourself feel better. Having played EvE for countless hours actually does make my opinion on game mechanics more valid than someone who has played for just a few, and understands little about how it all fits together into a bigger picture.
Without experience, opinion is inevitably just conjecture.[/quote]
No, I was just about to dock when this occurred, I could not use my ECM, but at least three adversaries were preventing me from moving via webbing/scrambling/interdicting, while at least one other bumped me around.
Someone had earlier mistakenly posted such things were not possible to do in a binary language.
I would have to disagree, just because you have chomped down a million sliders or burgers does not mean you are the goto guy for burger advice. For all I know you are Supersize Me sort of guy.
It is not conjecture, I have actually experience this first hand twice now. Once, was plenty for me.
Well I thought at least it was relatively safe, at most I might be attacked a few times on approach, but that they would not make it past my highly resistant shields, even still as a secondary measure I beefed up the hull–never had I conceived of this bumping tactic that in effect leaves you a as sitting duck and with no consequence to the aggressor. Clearly, this is a serious flaw in game play and mechanical logic. Now combine that with the use of warp inhibitors and it just adds insult to injury.
There is no strategy or work involved in capping another player’s property in doing this, save for several dozen volleys of missiles or whatever.
[quote=“Daliena_Talvanen, post:37, topic:21622, full:true”]
Well the thing is… In this version of chess, it actually IS within the rules to smash your hand with a hammer, and it’s up to you to defend yourself against it.[/quote]
Highsec is intended for new players, it should not proffer the same aggressive gameplay as in null/low secs.
Furthermore, Jita is a mass-marketplace, it should be a sort of declared non-combat zone. Honestly, it is frustrating going there, being that there are hundreds of ships camped all around the place, bottle-necking the entrances and the like, fights and explosions are currently common place.
Also, there is no defense against the aforementioned tactic, for either a solo player or even a in many instances a small group of players–there is currently a massive alliance of players stalking the place throughout the day and night, if they need more help most certainly it is readily available.
).
