Why do warp distrurptors allow others to steer your ship?


(Kara Silver) #42

Look I agree you have a right to an oppinion but it is your fault for not knowing the mechanics. Either you did not research well or you did not try to interact with other players to learn. And you complain about the mechanics many parts of the game were built 15 years ago and can’t just be changed. Learn the game and stop crying or find a game that is “fair”.


(Aareya) #43

You were relatively safe. High security space is still relatively safe. Most of the time, players fly around without conflict. It just happened you got into a situation where you weren’t safe. Escape is also not guaranteed. You have bulkheads in your low slots to give you more hit points, but didn’t know about bumping. Now you know and people in this thread gave you suggestions on how to avoid it in the future.

You will lose ships again. Your ship is not like a legendary sword of gandalf that, once acquired through some epic quest, you will always keep. They are built. They are destroyed. It will happen many times. This is one of the hardest concepts to learn in EVE Online, the disposable nature of your ship and its modules.


(Markus Jameson) #44

I think you’re thinking of it as starting when they webbed & bumped you?

I also think you’re too focused on what you thought was some kind of game bug, zoom out a bit & look at the bigger picture.

It really started when you left the relative safety of the NPC corporation, that was the first move… figuratively speaking you put your Queen out in the middle of the board without any support.

They then war dec you (the second move) effectively removing your biggest defense in hi sec from play (CONCORD), which telegraphs their next move (a group attack on station or gate) so far ahead of time it was easily avoidable.

You had several options then that could have sidestepped their next move completely.

But instead of drawing your Queen back to the safety of your side of the board (back to a NPC corp or using a different alt not in that corp until the dec is done) you leave your Queen out in the open.

Once they bumped you on the station it was already too late, there were several of them & one of you & in any sensible game that should be hopeless.

The way I see it your job in all this was to avoid being there in that situation (a wardeced corporation without any CONCORD or other player support) in the first place :slight_smile:


(ShahFluffers) #45

Okay… I am going to have a crack at this one last time. :slight_smile:

Most of that not relevant here.

And your “fair concept of game play” clearly clashes with my own (and a few others here). So whose opinion carries more weight?

Someone who has been here for only a few weeks and wants to make dramatic changes to what the game is based on their own notions of how it should be? All because they failed to research and utilize the mechanics currently in place?

Or people who came to the game and stuck around because of what it is now?

Maybe so. But I can easily point out a few other commonly used tactics that arguably make even less sense and are possibly bigger “glitches” in the game. Some of these have even been paraded around by the DEVs themselves as “ingenious use of the mechanics.”

  • Web-to-Warp trick

  • MWD-to-Warp trick

  • Cloak-MWD-to-Warp Trick
    (all of the above abuse game mechanics to get into warp faster and more reliably avoid danger)

  • Suicide Ganking

  • Wormhole-Rolling

  • Dreadnought-bowling

  • Jet can spam for decloaking

  • Drag Bubbles

  • Citadels being set up just out of range of a hostile Citadel

  • Scam Contracts

  • Margin Trading

  • AFK Cloaking

The list goes on and on and on.

Most of these have been around for years. Most even have the DEV’s blessing.
And none of these things were intended to even exist when the system was designed.

sigh

No… see… the ECM you tried using isn’t allowed because it is an Area of Effect weapon. Meaning, it will hit everything within range of you, friend or foe. That is why you can’t really use it in high-sec (note: technically you CAN… but it would require that switch your safety button to red and risk hitting someone not involved in your fight… which will result in the police nuking you).

Warp Disruptors and Stasis Webs are targeted modules. Meaning, they can only apply to one target at a time. No one else is involved.

If you had a “regular” ECM (which are targeted modules) then you could have used that against one of the people attacking you.

Regarding the rest of it; yes, there were things you could have done to mitigate the risk and/or get out of the situation you were in.
But they all more or less require planning ahead of time.

Things you could have done:

  • Gone to a different trade hub: Yes, Jita carries the most stuff at some of the lowest prices… but what is more important? A 10 to 20% difference in price or your ship remaining in-tact?
    You have other market options. Amarr, Dodixie, Rens, Hek and many more small “local hubs” scattered here and there.
  • Used a different ship to go shopping in: A battleship is a combat ship. And a slow one at that. Using a hauler is often faster and, if you lose it, you still have a battleship to go back to.
  • Make bookmarks on stations you frequently go to: Creating one right next to the station structure will allow you to warp directly into the station’s docking radius with no variance in where you “land.” This allows you to dock securely.
    Also make sure you have an insta-undock bookmark (a bookmark 150+ km away, directly in front of where you exit the station). This allows you to warp away from hostiles sitting on a station and then warp to where you want to go. But beware, because hunters also know this trick and may try to head you off on the gate.
  • Warp Core Stabilizers: These will negate 1 “point” of warp disruption per module.
    Please note that Warp Disruptors will apply 1 point of warp disruption and Warp Scramblers will apply 2 points of disruption. And Heavy Interdictors can utilize a specialized module that applies "infinite disruption."
    So don’t rely on these too heavily.
  • Have multiple caches of stuff around the map: By keeping multiple bases of operations, you can ping-pong around the map to more “quiet” places. Jump Clones are handy for this.
  • Use a different character that is “unaffiliated” with your main character for shopping: This throws people off your “scent” and can give you greater peace of mind.
  • Stay in an NPC corporation: This is pretty simple. No one can declare war on you in these corps. But you do pay an 11% tax on your activities. Consider it a “no war fee.”

So what would you say if you found out that the DEV’s like it this way?
That there is no “overlooked programming logic” involved.
That things are designed to be unfair.

sigh
There. Is. No. Designated. Safe. Area.

Please point to me where in the game it says that High-sec was meant to be “safe.”

No… don’t use the “other games do it” line. No, don’t say "common sense says it should be."
EVE is not like other games. My “common sense” differs from yours.

As for the tactics and being a newbie… sometimes, the simplest and most mundane tactics are the most effective means of "winning."
And if it works… why change it up? “Don’t fix what ain’t broke, yo!”

And whether your are newbie or not is not relevant. You were flying around, in a big expensive battleship, with expensive modules, during war time, in a trade hub known for being prone to violence. That is like someone wearing gold clothes in Bangkok and expecting not to be mugged.
Plus, alternate characters are a thing here. That makes character age not a good metric for IDing newbies.

Dude… ever heard of role playing? They are playing the part of the “villain.” And they actually do a pretty good job of it because well… everyone hates or mocks them. :joy:

And yes… extortion is totally allowed and even celebrated here (by players and DEVs alike).

I personally used to do that with Starbases when I was a 6 month old nubbin! :smiley:
My corporation would find a nice starbase on a moon, declare war on the corp it belonged to, asked for a ransom, and if they didn’t pay my corp and we would shoot it down and loot whatever was left behind.


(Dornier Pfeil) #46

Except you weren’t blown up outside of Jita 4-4. You died outside of one of the lesser stations in Jita. Your attackers knew where to find you which suggests to me you made yourself predictable. My guess is you were returning from a mission to turn it in to it’s agent.

Agreed. There is no defense against bumping once it begins. The best defense is prevention. There is a technique that combines instadock bookmarks inside the docking ring with the autopilot with safespot approaches to the station that don’t bring you in from predictable directions. There are a lot of nice people in the game who will teach you this if you ask them nicely. There are even entrepreneurial sorts who will sell you the bookmarks since you can’t make them yourself so long as you are decced.


(Markus Jameson) #47

A healthy dose of cynicism & a long spoon is advisable when buying this kind of thing though… there are plenty of “entrepreneurs” who won’t be above doubling their money.

Some of them will be off to sell that same bookmark to your war-decers before the inks even dry on their contract with you :smile:

Clever war-decers might even find ways to seed market adds for this kind of bookmark with an alt in their war targets home area before declaring war, it’s certainly something I’d look into myself where I operating on that end of things :smirk:


(Keno Skir) #48

If you used the correct ECM module it would have been allowed. There are also warp disruption modules the enemy are not allowed to use in hisec. This all pretty much stems from your own mistaken perception that you should be safe in HiSec, and also your mistaken perception that there is nothing you can do to prevent the situation / escape it.

EvE is a game that takes knowledge to play safely, and if you take your knocks and learn your lessons like everyone else you’ll build your knowledge and become extremely survivable even without much SP. The answers have been given in this thread several times. Make instadock bookmarks on the (few) stations anyone bothers to do this outside and it will never happen again. The vast majority of lessons in EvE involve a death and 9 times out of 10 it feels pretty unfair but there is always a new tactic and adaption is the name of the game.

If you come with the right attitude a huge number of people will happily help you improve and accomplish what you set out to do. If you complain and insist that the game should be changed before you’re in any position to understand the ramifications of your conjecture, you must expect to be ridiculed.


(Markus Jameson) #49

He’s operating from a one man tax haven corp so I doubt his decers are camping his stations 24/7, would be boring, they must have better things to do than sit outside his station all day… or at least a few other victims to chase :upside_down_face:

Besides… he can just make a new throw away alpha, fly up in a corvette while still in the NPC starter corp, make the bookmarks, contract them to his main, then biomass it… couldn’t be simpler :wink:


(Markus Jameson) #54

Somehow missed this :confused:

Ah yes the ball-peen hammer tactic…

Well you should have simply invoked rule 47 (addendum 43) south coast rules.

This allows you to call for a member of the audience to stand behind his chair with a lump hammer & whack him over the head each time he does that… it’s also called “being in a NPC corp so you can’t be war-deced & CONCORD kills him whenever he attacks you”.


(Kaizmo) #55

Yeah this topic belongs somewheres in the communication center with all the other cancer threads there. Being in the newbie Q&A is rather counterproductive.


(WEWILLSEE Whatwillbe) #56

Awesome reply thanks a lot from another new player!


(WEWILLSEE Whatwillbe) #57

I don’t know s anything about programming, but do understand that you simply got f@**ed by some bad assess, like happened a lot with me being new to. I try to learn an plan my revanges, and loving it even more here now!


(Jint Hikaru) #58

And here we see the reply of someone who is going to do well in Eve.

OP could learn a lot from this guy.


(DeMichael Crimson) #59

Wow, and these new forums were suppose to be better than the old forums. Guess they are in the fact that the toxicity level of bitter Vets and forum trolls has definitely overflowed the containment field here in NCQ&A.

All you so called Vet’s saying “this is how Eve has been from the start and will continue to be like that”, should know that was true a few years ago. Now if you take a good look at all the recent changes CCP has done in the past couple of years you can see the direction this game is heading towards which is definitely away from the old way. Granted it won’t happen overnight but it’s coming and soon.

Personally I agree with most of the OP’s viewpoint’s and regardless if he’s new or not, his post doesn’t deserve to be met with all the toxic vitriol you people have spewed out, especially here in this sub-forum.

No wonder CCP has a hard time gaining and retaining new players.


(Markus Jameson) #60

I try to make my posts light & use humor to make my point (edit: when I actually have one :slight_smile: ) so I hope I wasn’t included in that? If I was I failed in my aims :worried:


(Keno Skir) #61

The vitriol didn’t really get going until the OP made a wall of text post and began refusing to accept the correct advice he was given. As you point out this in NCQ&A not New Features & Ideas. His questions were answered, he was told why he could not dock and why his ECM didn’t work. The vitriol stems from his telling us so called Vets how things should be (New Features & Ideas), instead of listening to how things are (NCQ&A) in relation to his question.


(Markus Jameson) #62

I do tend to agree with this though, suggestions & opinions about changes to the game don’t belong here, this sub is for what is not for what (anyone thinks) should be :pensive:


(DeMichael Crimson) #63

Heh, it’s not about the OP accepting or rejecting the advice. It’s about how that advice was intentionally presented in a way that demeaned and ridiculed the OP.

Also threads are allowed some leeway to slightly go off topic. He asked questions in the initial post and then later stated what he thought High sec meant and then after that stated how he thought it should be. Nothing wrong with that. He didn’t rage, whine or rant and he has a right to voice his opinion.

The rules for NCQ&A are the same here as they were in the old forums, meaning no new player bashing. I think I’ll just start reporting again like I did in the old forums and let CCP do their thing.


(Keno Skir) #64

You’re white knighting pretty hard today man he hasn’t even been given that much abuse tbh.


(Dornier Pfeil) #65

You should be somewhat specific about who is being less than optimal for NCQ&A. ShahFluffers certainly demonstrated patience above and beyond and deserves not to be lumped in with ‘less than optimal’. There is quite a bell curve of replies.