Why does anyone mine?

This is true.

However, if you start your session with 1 million ISK, mine 1 million ISK worth of ore, refine it to 1.2 ISK worth of materials, and just sell the materials, you have profited by 1.2 million ISK. Your profit is objectively higher by not falling for the “my minerals are free” trap and just maximizing how much you refine them for its own sake.

Instead of thinking of it as profit, think of it as creating or destroying value.

By refining the ore into minerals, you have created .2 million ISK of value, so you should very clearly do this.

However, by producing a 1.1 million ISK set of goods with 1.2 million ISK of materials, you have destroyed .1 ISK worth of value. Thus, you very clearly should not do this, barring extenuating circumstances like a slow mineral market (unlikely) or hauling concerns (both in terms of getting minerals to market or getting what you buy at market to where you are).

It is perhaps misleading to say that minerals you mine aren’t free. However it is important to understand the sentiment behind that idea: The minerals, ore, and goods you produce all have a set value at every stage, and it is a very common situation for value to be destroyed if you refine your daily loot (Ore, Minerals, Goods) too far.

It also is important to remember that even if making minerals into goods is a good deal, that by mining you aren’t earning ISK some other way actively. Mining 1 million ISK worth of ore that you refine into 1.2 mil of minerals that you build into goods worth 2 million ISK is strictly inferior to running missions for say… 20 million ISK, and then buying the minerals for 1.2 ISK to convert into 2 million ISK goods.

Again, we can look at value created a session. The miner created 2 million of value in their session by refining their entire haul, but a missioner could create 33 million in the same time, because they could make 16 times as many goods with bought minerals than the amount of minerals the miner could mine in this hypothetical scenario, just by not falling for the psychological trap of assuming that buying refined materials is worse than making them yourself. At the end of the day, everything has an ISK value, think of all your assets as pure ISK. It is best to think of it like you HAVE to refine ore directly into ISK, but can do it at two different rates, the reprocessing rate (AKA the value of the minerals you make) and the market rate (the value of the ore sold). Likewise any industrial activity is just refining minerals into goods to sell for ISK, compared to the market “refining” minerals into ISK. Find the method of refining that has a better rate.

Or, to put it another way, if you had two buttons on the refine pannel, and one said it would increase the value of your ore by converting it into 1.2 mil of minerals, and one said it would reduce your ore’s value by converting it into 1.1 mil of minerals, it is VERY clear which one you should pick. Until and unless a situation (like the hauling issue Bjorn has) makes it so that refining and selling are not essentially equivalent at whatever stage of refining you are on, you should always pick whichever one gives you more ISK worth of assets. In your hypothetical case, you should refine ore into minerals via processing, and then refine minerals into ISK via the market, rather than refine minerals into goods, because the market is giving you a 100% reprocessing rate, and manufacturing is giving you a 91% reprocessing rate.

You have to be rather unusual (Like Bjorn, who has multiple circumstances that make mining clearly the best solution for their needs, because they both can’t the level of PVE content that surpass mining in ISK, and because their location makes hauling to transform the minerals into ISK into ) to make solo mining the best way to handle yourself.

The fact that you are butthurt (as evidenced by your rewriting “War and Peace”) that I (or others) don’t play the game the same way you do is probably something you need to discuss with your therapist.

Great post. Don’t let people with short attention spans, who could never fill a single page with anything intelligent, keep you from writing them.

If that is too long, here is a simplified version: If you found 10 dollars on the ground, “For free,” would you trade it for a 2 dollar sandwich?

In the vast majority of cases, no, you would not, and in reality you aren’t “Finding” the money in EVE, you are working for it by mining, investing time into earning it. Rationally you would just buy the object of value you care about and pocket the difference

By deciding to turn the 1.2 mil isk of minerals into 1.1 mil isk of goods, you are giving away a tenner for 2 dollars worth of stuff. It doesn’t matter that you mined the ore, it still has value the second you mine it, and you decided to lower its value irrationally.

If you care about profit (and you do, the reason you do this is because of the alleged “100% profit”) you should, objectively, just sell the minerals. If you want to be silly and toss .1 mill isk in the garbage, it is your right to do it, but acting like people are being irrational and emotional for explaining why that is a silly thing to do is… well… silly.

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You analogy is not even close to being relevant.

But no, I turned 1 mil ISK worth of ore into 1.1 mil ISK of goods.

It is an identical situation. You had 1.2 million ISK of stuff at one point. You decided to then have 1.1 Million ISK of stuff, rather than keeping the 1.2 million ISK of stuff. You traded down 10 dollars of stuff to 2 dollars worth of stuff.

The fact that the original source of that was ore is irrelevant. Your assets and money don’t remember what they used to be, what matters at any given point is what they could be. Yes, you increased the value of your ore in the end, but what you did was the equivalent of just jetcanning .1 million ISK worth of materials out of your ship. The outcome was identical.

Taking an action that is literally equivalent in outcome to just tearing money up is obviously ridiculous.

The mistake you are making is ONLY looking at benefit (Having a 1.1 million ISK trade good) and NOT the cost (Giving up 1.2 million in Minerals). If you want to be successful economically, both in EVE and life, you must always look at what you give up, as well as what you get.

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The answer is so simple it escapes some.
It’s not about ISK/hour … we like to mine & build stuff

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I mine to help the Corp/Alliance in making the fleet doctrine ships. So we have a steady supply of all the stuff we need for fits on the market. That and I like hearing “asteroid depleted”.

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Yes, my reprocessing skill isn’t high enough to reprocess ore without a net loss. Maybe it’ll never be that high. But yes, it is satisfying to create a whole set of 10k Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missiles out of nothing but ore, LP and the base cost in the loyalty point store.

Whether to use them to blow up things or sell them in Jita, that’s secondary.

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I like to be self sufficient. I hate buying stuff from people…LOL so I mine, and research my own bpo’s and build stuff. I built my hulk after researching a coveter bpc. I built my orca from the ground up. Its not hard just takes a lot of time.

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And in essence, it requires people to build stuff for other people to blow up, or use it to blow up others.

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Mining is not meant to be a sole profession. It is meant as a supplement to the industry role.

The fact is that there is more value to creating material and products than just the ISK value. EVE players need things to be built, as does your corp for various reasons. Mining helps to get the minerals you need to build more things. The yield for selling minerals or the ore outright is low, albeit a way to make money consistently. But you will need to consider that there is more value in the ships and modules that you will make rather than just the ISK that comes from them.

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Yes, if you don’t enjoy mining.

Don’t do anything in EVE if you are not having fun while doing it.

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I find it fun as well due to my corp talking and mining together

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If you pay for your accounts with $$ then why would you play for isk/hr?

Just enjoy the game and do what gives you most fun.

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The OP has discovered that Eve Online is a mining simulator, with space ship pew pew as a backdrop to the real action of asteroid molestation.

I flew 39 jumps across nulsec today. About 4 systems had folks in them, and all of those had 20 or more.

Cynos mean that folks mine while aligned to a safe harbour, and dictors mean mining fleets warp away when local “spikes” by one. Together, the two mechanics keep nulsec empty of pvp and free for mining ops.

The reason Eve needs to be a mining sim with pvp backdrop, rather than visa versa, is because the PVP is blob based and inherently unfair.

It is worth looking at why The Culture just left Fountain, one of the richest nulsec regions in New Eden. Their alliance was falling apart due to lack of content. Their leadership failed to get the members sufficiently interested in mining.

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reeee we should get rid of mining because its pointless reeee REEEEE hear me REEEE

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Someone’s gotta be the Gank bait

Pretty much this. There’s a catharsis in simple gathering and construction. It’s why Minecraft was so successful. In Eve, I’m not much for industry. I don’t hate it though. Mining is fairly relaxing while I’m on an infiltration alt and casually digging through corp emails, cataloging intel, and studying my targets. Personally I like doing things like refining and margin trading. But you’d be extremely hard pressed to find someone who doesn’t enjoy a single “productive” type of gameplay.

Funny story: When I was in Suddenly Ninjas a lot of us bought Minecraft to go grief public servers. Then we set up a private server so we could grief each other. Then the griefing just turned into building stuff. It’s just fun to have a relaxing downtime activity.

When I’m not planning scams and heists on Eve, I play a game called Stardew Valley which is basically just a farming game like Harvest moon. If someone in Eve wants to gather and build, more power to them. Our little ecosystem needs their type of player to flourish. Just like it needs people like me to generate conflict by screwing with em. :wink:

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Cause Imperium saying “now ■■■■ off it’s ours” had no impact.