Maybe they don’t care about it, but still it does limit their gameplay options. If they don’t care about the options that are not available to them, then that’s cool, but still it doesn’t change the fact that they loose options, unlike in WoW where there is nothing you can’t do because you lack money.
Like what? “Something”? You see, my entire point is that there isn’t really any “something” to achieve that would justify placing Gold farming as your main activity.
Because you have no other choice in WoW, the relevant gear CAN’T be sold. It’s bound to your character.
Again… Not I. Nobody, because it is not possible to sell the relevant gear, it is bound to your character once dropped.
Wait wait wait. Hold on. We might be on something.
Are you actually not aware of the fact that it is not possible in World of Warcraft to put the relevant gear on the AH because it is bound to your character? That would explain a lot about your position actually.
It is not a matter of choice here. The only things you are allowed to put on the AH are the equivalent of T1 modules, and even then you cannot do it for every gear slot.
To put it in an EvE perspective, the AH of WoW work in such a way that you would only be able to buy T1 modules, but no weapons and no rigs. Any weapons and rigs, and anything T2 or faction wouldn’t be found on the market and have to be looted on NPC.
if you didn’t know that, obviously it changed your opinion a bit…
No you can’t. In current WoW, once a player take a resource nod, it does NOT despawn before twenty second, letting any player immediatly following you also get the same nod and basically a copy of the resources.
An other thing you didn’t know about WoW that alterate your judgement apparently.
You are competing, and you’re doing it badly. As per my free minerals comment. Your lack of understanding is amazing.
You keep doing you. Believe Eve is a PvE game and that you can avoid it. I kinda hope someone in this thread cares enough to look you up with a locator agent.
You do need gold, but in a small amount compared to how easy it is to generate money.
This gear is absolute trash tier. To the point that if you actually played actively, even the “New” bunch of not bound stuff will be inferior to your “now irrelevant” gear, except the very specific case of an Xpac change, which is once every two years and only true for like, the first two weeks of it.
I don’t “choose” to not buy this gear, it’s just a trash tier gear that is not useful. AND, even if somehow, you still believe that this gear is useful, there is still the fact that it doesn’t cover every gear slot. So no matter how hard you try, gearing your char this way is just not possible.
Keep in mind that I’m talking about the current Retails WoW. It might have been different in the past. But this is what it is in 2020.
All relevant ones, yes.
Haha. You really are good at finding great examples.
Bags? Is this a joke, seriously? You can buy a full set of the current best bags in the game after two rounds of “Daily chest”, which consist in 4 daily quests taking between two and five minutes each quest.
A great total of 40 minutes at the very worst. You seriously call this “relevant to the core gameplay”?
Please.
Well last times I played was a few hours ago, and that is definitelly the case. If I remember well, it cames out with Legion Xpac, a bit more than three years ago.
I’m fairly sure not many people are gonna agree that it is easy to have enough ISK to do everything you would want to do in EvE.
Not it doesn’t depend. When there is easily obtainable gear that is objectively better, it’s just trash. There is no “things that you are doing” that justify using something that is just bad.
WoW isn’t EvE, where using something less powerfull can make sense because you are limited by CPU and Powergrids.
Such limitations do not exist, and there is no reason to not use something that gives more/better stats.
How do you know if it actually sells? And do you know for how much?
You admitted yourself not having played WoW since at least three years (by not being aware of mechanics created three years ago), I doubt you have any clue how well and for how much your hypothetics items would sell.
If they stay several days in the AH and even then, when they are sold, give you an amount of money that is nothing impressive, I’m not sure anyone can actually pretend that they are interesting for the community, and lucrative to produce/sell.
Actually, take a look at WoW forum and Reddit when you have some times. The crafting and selling professions being more and more useless is a usual subject of complain from the community in the recent months.
Then that doesn’t really make sense. The whole reason why I say that it is almost nothing is because it is impossible to build your character progression around it. So, if you don’t deny this fact, you don’t deny my position then?
Well, actually, if you ever manage to sell the items you are talking about to anybody, it will most likely be other new players. Veterans will all be in my position, where they are just useless, even for a secondary char, that you would just gear with Legacy Items.
Some things that you can desire to do in EvE takes several Billions of ISK, and you are probably not “absolutely terrible at the game” if you don’t believe that those goals are not easy.
Sure I’ve never said they were impossible. Just “not easy”.
And it sounds to me that you just want to refuse a fact about buyable items being mostly bad, and will try each and every possible examples until you find one that actually works.
Thing is, even if you manage to do it, with the nice amount of examples that were wrong, it still won’t proove that it is not “mostly” irrelevant.
Well, still missed the spot. The best items for Twinks are not items buyables in AH.
You won’t find any situation where those items are the best possible for the job you want to accomplish, because it is a deliberate choice on the devs parts that the best (or sometimes just good) items, in every category, will as a consequence be bound to characters.
And as I said multiple times, if rare exception occurs, then still it will only be for a few slots, and the vast majority of your gear will have to be found elsewhere.
My point is actually quite simple: Yes, AH/Market is a PvP mechanic IMO. Good thing we agree on that.
But then, the actual question behind all that was “Why does it makes EvE a PvP game, but not WoW?”.
And my answer to this question is that it all depend to how relevant PvP mechanics (Markets/AH, but also other mechanics) are for the core gameplay of the game.
To put it simply, for me, when PvP mechanics are more relevant than PvE ones, it’s a PvP game. When the opposite is true, it’s a PvE game. I don’t think it’s a very hard position to follow.
And then again yeah I believe EvE market is much more impactful for EvE gameplay than WoW AH is for WoW gameplay, which is what we are debating right now.
I read a few pages after googling the auction house and that seemed like one that was trying to generally explain what the auction house was.
I think you’re wrong about the point I’m trying to make.
The way the auction house is explained to players is very different in the way eve’s market is. The wording (because wording is important) suggests that the auction house is not the normal way for players to acquire items that you want to use. But I’m betting that eve’s market is explained as the normal way to get items you want to use.
I never denied the auction house could be used to make money. And you know I don’t deny that it sounds like pvp.
It’s just not as integral to the greater game as eve’s market is. Is it?
I can’t get very far in eve without exposing myself to the market, or competition for resources or getting hunted. Because pvp is a core element. THE core element.
But I’m guessing that’s not the case for wow…
And without even finding you, i know that you are exposed to pvp.
You are or will eventually be in an area where you can be attacked by another player or in competition with another player for resources.
And the very nature of our little game is pvp in itself.
Yet you created a character just to prove me right…
Oh of course your new alpha alt won’t be forced to engage in PvP, that would be rookie griefing if you stay in safe systems. You could mine all that ore in a system where PvP is banned and create new alts to continue being a rookie to avoid PvP.
There are lots of tools like that to avoid PvP if you play it smart. Outplay those PvPers! Beat them, win, compete against those PvPers that want to find you you and make sure you win this competition.*
So there is nothing in EvE that players can want and you wouldn’t be able to financiate easily? Doubt it’s true, but if it is, that’s nice for you.
Still, there is the fact that no potential goal in WoW would be hard because of financial reason, even for a New player, AND the fact that in EvE, you could reach your goal, and then watch it be destroyed and have to restart it. Which can’t happen in WoW.
You might be very rich, but that doesn’t really change how ISK in general is much more relevant than Gold for every aspect of the gameplays.
Which is not my view tho.
My view is that they are objectively trash for most players, and you have such a hard time denying it that your only answers are attempts to pick-up very niche activities, like twinks, that represent something like 2% of the WoW playerbase.
And even with such niche examples, until now, you still haven’t find even ONE situation where they are actually a good option. I think this debate proved long ago that the statement that they are bad is far from just being about me and what I personnally think of them. You can’t find any player for who they would be goods.
But well, let’s forgot this idea for a minute.
Let’s say that I admit that some people can find them useful.
Still.
They are useful, but not the best. Meanwhile, in EvE Market, you can find the best items. On one hand, you have a place where you can find the best gear the game has to offer. On the other hand, a place where you can’t.
The one where you can find the best items is necessary more relevant. Even if those items are not “useless”, they are not the best option, limiting the impact of their method of obtention, aka sell/buy.
The very fact that you can’t find the best gear this way makes it relatively irrelevant compared to mechanics that CAN give you the best.
Not the existence. The predominance of them.
No?
Your statement imply that the actual goal of it all is to end-up doing PvP, meanwhile PvE is here to build things before engaging in PvP.
I probably already said that in an other thread, but basically, your own statement describe a situation where PvP is the Car and PvE is the fuel.
Surely you give more importance to the Car than you do to the fuel. It’s a necessary thing for it to work, but it’s not the interesting point.
Besides, if CCP were to remove the PvE, and more specifically the Industrial part, PvP could still continu, as long as they provide other ways to have ships and modules, such as NPC selling them instead of players. Now I believe this would be bad for the game, but still, it is doable.
On the contrary, industry without PvP players to buy… I’m not sure there is a way to keep it interesting. Selling it to NPC, to me, sounds more annoying than buying to them would be for PvP players.
