This is a support ticket I recently submitted regarding Seagulling or isk payout theft from corporate reward payouts.
As seen on the EVE forums and r/Eve reddit seagulling is a form of gameplay many players are participating in. However, this is largely to the detriment of a large number of groups who actively run or used to run Observatory Flashpoints, but have disengaged from the content as result of this gameplay.
A list of groups where this form of gameplay is a pain-point are:
- Kybernauts Clade
- Triglavian Unity
- Stribog Clade
(All members of the Pro-Triglavian Coalition of around 1200 players)
- Any other group looking to engage in content within Pochven which is largely just Observatory Flashpoints
This is a common bug report my alliance has submitted on a number of tickets.
Observatory Flashpoint Payout Theft
There is an issue with Observatory Flashpoints in Pochven. Observatory Flashpoints currently pay out all pilots up to 70 pilots who have tagged a rat in the first or second room regardless of participation in clearing the site. The site being high level PVE takes a large fleet of T2 or Triglavian ships. This is a large investment and someone being able to use a T1 cloak on a T1 frigate to get paid a MASSIVE amount of isk for their investment is extremely discouraging as it decays your fleet members payouts. Additionally, if they arrive when the site spawns they can burn thousands of km away making it impossible to catch the offenders as combat probes are ineffective in the site. As an FC this is extremely frustrating. Especially because there are a large amount of repeat offenders abusing this payout system which I view as exploitive.
Find Observatory Flashpoint in Pochven
Find Flashpoint before it has spawned or enter the second room while a fleet is engaging the dreadnought which spawns at a distance from the beacon, tag enemy, cloak up, wait for fleet to run site or finish site, decloak before they finish, receive payout.
Basically, warp into site, tag a single enemy and MWD away, cloak up and wait for fleet to run the site. Decloak before Observatory dies, receive payout."
However, the number of seagulls and their methods have since escalated. Now the most popular way to engage in seagulling is to burn 10,000KM away, jettison a single piece of ammo, remote repair the can, receive payout. Very cool gameplay, much counterplay. To make matters worse you cannot use combat probes to scan these players down as the site is a deadspace pocket.
However, while Observatory flashpoints are the main point of contention, all Triglavian and DED corporate reward payouts have this issue. Within Pochven there are smaller sites which bluntly are not worth running due to the miniscule isk rewarded for the required isk and time investment to run the sites. However, if you add seagulls or players taking payout ticks without helping to complete the site they most certainly are not worth running.
Furthermore, this is not just a Triglavian aligned player issue. Accelerator Flashpoints the Edencom variety of the Observatory flashpoint have the same issue which has been recently confirmed. Additionally, Triglavian wormholes in K-space which are much more accessible and it is common to encounter another player on have the same issue. Except not only do you lose out on isk which is rewarded albeit in a small amount but also loyalty points. This is the same for the Accelerator Flashpoint which also rewards loyalty points.
This has always been an issue.
During invasion phase 3 one of the Triglavian and Edencom aligned players methods of demotivating the opposing side was offensive logi where they would repair the NPCs of the side they support. However, when the site completed those participating in repairing the NPCs within the site would actually receive payment making the isk payment almost abysmal for an individual player.
After reviewing all of this information I cannot grasp why this system has not been changed to only pay out the highest damaging fleet within the site. This is an existing mechanic in Incursions and this same issue, was at a point solved for Incursions, by implementing the highest damaging fleet system.
Therefore, I would like to ask why this form of gameplay is not considered an exploit and if it was the intentional way for these sites to operate.
- Salty Matt
The response I received was our first clear statement of seagulling not being an exploit but working as intended.
Greetings Salty Matt, GM ----- here,
The mechanics you have decided to call “seagulling” are working as intended by design, and not considered to be an exploit. If you believe that the relevant mechanics should be changed, or that a policy stance should be enacted to declare the behavior you described as an exploit, I understand your concerns. Any feedback from our players is taken very seriously and we appreciate your contribution. I would encourage you to also consider posting your thoughts on the EVE Online forums Link, that you may discuss your recommendations with the development team.
I recommend that you consider highlighting your concerns to the CSM as well. They ensure that the voices of the EVE community are heard and you can either post on the CSM section of the forum or contact them directly.
If you have any further concerns or if there is anything you’d like to add then please let me know.
CCP Player Experience | EVE Online
Why is being able to jettison a piece of ammo 10,000KM away and remote repairing it to get a large amount of isk not an exploit.
I’d like to get more player feedback to bring this issue to light.