Why not CCP just cancel all High Sec area?

It’s not. It being an activity that isn’t driven by a need for ISK is inherently a bad thing. It’s an activity people enjoy because it’s low effort, relaxing and minimal risk. You want to make everything super risky becausey ou think everyone should have to treat EVE as a career. Tough. EVE is not your game and you dont’ get to decide how other people should ejoy it.

:rofl: :rofl: No, you are wrong. The reason there’s loads of ISK is that people like you keep attacking highsec players who have basically no impact on the economy while you think it’s totally fine that nullsec players rake in trillions in perfect safety. for some reason you’ve allowed yourself to be conditioned into thinking the people making the least impact are the biggest problem.

How exactly does ISK become less excessive by moving it from one person to another? The only way to get ISK out is to make more sinks.

It’s not a strawman, it’s s simple statement of fact. You often say this is response to me calling you out by I have never seen you actually arguing for it. You only ever attack low income highsec players. You seem perfectly content with nullsec carrying on as nnormal as long as pesky highsec miners have to be killed on a regular basis by trash tier PvPers like you that are too scared to go anywhere else and fight people with guns.

Why does it need to be earned? EVE is a game, it’s designed to give players enjoyment without them needing to earn it. It’s not a career choice. If it fails to allow players to enjoy it then it’s failing as a game.

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And we have a fundamental disagreement on what EVE should be.

You want a game where menial low-effort farming tasks are available (and shielded from interference by the game mechanics), tasks that encourage you to press F1 and go AFK.

I want a game where success means something because it is earned, not given to you as a reward for nothing more than sheer number of hours invested.

you think everyone should have to treat EVE as a career.

Nope, that would be you.

You want a menial grind where success is directly tied to hours invested, encouraging people to invest excessive time because the only way to get more ISK/ore/etc is to spend more hours farming. And, much like a real-world job, you want it to continue to be a grind where the first thing everyone does is figure out how to disengage from the game and do something else in another window.

I want a game where success is the result of skill and effort, allowing a smart player to get lots of ISK/ore/etc in a short time if they’re good enough. This would also be far more entertaining than the current job-like grind, as whether you succeed or fail you’ve at least had a game experience beyond “press F1, go AFK”.

you think it’s totally fine that nullsec players rake in trillions in perfect safety

Stop lying. You’ve been told over and over and over and over and over and over and over again that I don’t believe this, you have absolutely no excuse for continuing to repeat this lie.

How exactly does ISK become less excessive by moving it from one person to another? The only way to get ISK out is to make more sinks.

Do you honestly not understand the concept that buying power is what matters, not the raw ISK numbers? ISK becomes less excessive if prices go up due to scarcity. Multiply all prices by 10 and 100 billion ISK now has the buying power of 10 billion ISK.

I have never seen you actually arguing for it.

Sure, if you close your eyes and never look for anything you can claim that you never see it and therefore your incessant lying is justified.

Why does it need to be earned?

Because earning success is what makes it have value. Since we’re talking about freedom of movement, consider the recent “visit every system in EVE without dying” accomplishment. The player who did it got community-wide attention and official recognition from CCP because it was a major challenge that required skill and effort to overcome. Now imagine doing the same thing in a hypothetical version of EVE with no PvP or aggressive NPCs. It would simply be a matter of loading every system in EVE into your autopilot queue, pressing “activate”, and going AFK until it finishes. Hardly anyone would bother attempting to do it, and nobody would care about their success if they did.

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Wrong. I want a sandbox MMO where a variety of playstyles are possible across a wide range of levels of effort and risk. That includes low effort, low risk, but also includes high effort, high risk. Basically, I want what EVE was designed to be.

Wrong again. Because you’ve made it clear that what you want is for players who have no ability nor desire to engage in PvP to be forced to be fodder for you. You don’t want to actually practice and become good enough at PvP to earn kills, so you whine on and on about how miners should be forced to let you kill them.

Do I? I invest a few hours a week and am a trillionaire so it seems like it would be an odd move for me to want my own playstyle to stop existing. Again, see above. What I want is continued variety. Unlike you, I don’t want the entire game designed around my taste. I understand that other players like other playstyles and think that’s OK.

I’m not lying. You make the claim you don’t like that when cornered but I have never even once seen you kick up a fraction of the fuss that you chuck at miners at their playstyles instead.

But raw ISK numbers affects buying power. If everything scaled as ISK scales, you’d be right, but it doesn’t. So if more and more ISK pours into the system while assets become rarer it just makes people who can invest in assets increase their worth faster while newer players can’t keep up.

We weren’t talking about success we were talking about enjoyment. You think you need to earn enjoyment in a video game. And there’s the problem. You treat videos games like a career rather than entertainment.

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^ This is what we get for not making Econ 101 a mandatory part of the school curriculum.

Edit: and Philosophy 101.

So, you didn’t bother reading and seeing that I said that menial low-effort farming tasks are available, and then proceeded to post about how you want exactly what I said you want.

Because you’ve made it clear that what you want is for players who have no ability nor desire to engage in PvP to be forced to be fodder for you.

No. I want a game in which those players don’t exist and nobody is fodder because they learn how to succeed in a PvP game or GTFO. You’re the one who wants EVE to be full of people who are only interested in and/or capable of menial farming tasks and get slaughtered every time they’re exposed to PvP.

Do I?

You’ve explicitly said that you want menial grinding to exist in EVE, and that means tying success directly to hours invested. For the players who choose to participate in that grind the only way to succeed is to treat EVE as a full-time job and play for a large number of hours. And you dare to accuse me of wanting to turn EVE into a job.

But raw ISK numbers affects buying power.

Affects =/= determines. Buying power is the supply of ISK relative to the supply of goods. If you want to reduce the total buying power of ISK you can do it in two ways: directly remove the amount of ISK via ISK sinks and reductions in ISK faucets, or reduce the supply of things people buy with ISK and force them to spend more ISK on each purchase.

I’m not lying.

Yes you are. I have told you over and over and over and over again that I don’t believe what you claim I believe, and you incessantly post the same old lie while pretending that if you close your eyes enough and ignore the evidence otherwise it doesn’t exist.

So if more and more ISK pours into the system while assets become rarer it just makes people who can invest in assets increase their worth faster while newer players can’t keep up.

Why are you assuming that new players can’t invest in assets? Are new players incapable of mining and production? It does devalue newbie mission farming by crashing the value of the ISK payouts, but we should be happy that newbies are discouraged from spending time on EVE’s worst gameplay experiences.

And remember, you’re the one stating that highsec mining is not worth it from a “gain ISK” point of view. Highsec mining is one of the few options available for newbies, and because it is a menial grind full of bot-like players the rewards from it have been devalued to the point where new players are commonly warned to avoid it.

And there’s the problem.

No, it’s a difference in how we view games:

You think that enjoyment is something that is passively provided. You pay your $15/month, CCP provides you with guaranteed fun. This appeals primarily to people seeking mindless and valueless entertainment, the video game equivalent of streaming a mediocre TV show in the background while you eat.

I think that enjoyment is something earned by investing in a game. If you want to have fun go out and find it, and overcome the obstacles in your path. This turns away many players but appeals to the ones who seek the satisfaction of intellectual challenges and accomplishment.

Or, to put it in achievement terms: you want a game full of the “Did Chapter 1” story achievements, where you automatically unlock all of them merely by playing the game without quitting. I want a game full of the “killed 3 enemies with one bullet” achievements, where you have to work for it and it’s a meaningful accomplishment when you succeed.

You treat videos games like a career rather than entertainment.

So says the person advocating for menial farming tasks where you’re encouraged to press F1 and go AFK, and the only way to succeed is to “play” the game for a minimum of several hours a day.

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Removed a large number of off topic posts. Keep it on topic. Thanks.

@Destiny_Corrupted: Come and take it. Not a miner, I do missions and sites. If you manage to pop my ship or steal my stuff that means I got lazy or made a mistake.

If you come after me, I’ll warp because I’m not fit up for pvp(or skilled and experienced in it) . However, I’m aware that I can be attacked in hisec just as easily as in a wh. The only difference is that the authorities will avenge my death in hisec. That’s how eve is meant to be and I wouldn’t want that to change.

I have no interest in pvp, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to complain about being attacked. I’m not risk averse, or rich, and I’m not scared either. I’m just aware that if I don’t want to pvp then I need to be prepared to avoid or escape, no matter where I am.
o7

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Then I don’t have an issue with you.

I only have an issue with people who believe they should be able to completely opt out of PvP at will.

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yeah, no, that ain’t happening in eve lol. Logging out is the only way to opt out. FYI, still trying to figure out how to quote people in here, about to run through the forum tut.
Am curious: is carebear merely someone with no interest in pvp, or someone who also whines about it being in game? Does my attitude as stated make me a carebear or no? If I am, fine. is just that I like to have a handle on definitions.

Either highlight a section of their post and a quote button will pop up, or click “reply” inside their post, and then you can quote their entire passage, or slice it up into sections manually (make sure to copy/paste the quote code tag and end quote tag before and after each quoted section).

Balanced EVE players will define “carebear” as the latter (someone who whines about it). It’s perfectly alright to not be interested in PvP, as long as you accept its presence and importance in the game. If you don’t want to fight anyone, but are fine with losing when you screw up by not taking proper precautions, or even die as an effect of normal entropy when you do take precautions, then you’re not a carebear.

Carebears define “carebear” merely as someone who doesn’t engage in PvP as an attempt to hijack the term and give the people it describes legitimacy. They want to make persecution against carebears seem like persecution against any player who isn’t a “griefer” (which in itself has varying definitions depending on who you ask).

Roger that, thanks. I would have loved to see those same people react to original Ultima Online before there was a pve server.

They cite Trammel as the pinnacle of fairness, justice, and progress in the world of MMO gaming. PvP is evil, and must be purged from the world in all its forms.

Fixed it :grinning:

Who is keeping this crap up?

This question alone is a provocation…

I couldn’t sleep. I was reading through the forum and saw a comment on here I wanted to respond to. I didn’t think it was old enough to count as necromancy.

Destiny only plays the forum. You’ll never run into him in game.

After I finish programming my chat bot, I won’t have to play the forum either; it will be entirely automated. I mean, let’s face it, all interactions here can be encapsulated into about two dozen responses.

Also, I really don’t understand how they allow you to so blatantly evade forum bans like this.

Stop lying. You know perfectly well that I’m not evading anything.