That might force Frostpacker into WHS
And we have a fundamental disagreement on what EVE should be.
You want a game where menial low-effort farming tasks are available (and shielded from interference by the game mechanics), tasks that encourage you to press F1 and go AFK.
I want a game where success means something because it is earned, not given to you as a reward for nothing more than sheer number of hours invested.
you think everyone should have to treat EVE as a career.
Nope, that would be you.
You want a menial grind where success is directly tied to hours invested, encouraging people to invest excessive time because the only way to get more ISK/ore/etc is to spend more hours farming. And, much like a real-world job, you want it to continue to be a grind where the first thing everyone does is figure out how to disengage from the game and do something else in another window.
I want a game where success is the result of skill and effort, allowing a smart player to get lots of ISK/ore/etc in a short time if theyâre good enough. This would also be far more entertaining than the current job-like grind, as whether you succeed or fail youâve at least had a game experience beyond âpress F1, go AFKâ.
you think itâs totally fine that nullsec players rake in trillions in perfect safety
Stop lying. Youâve been told over and over and over and over and over and over and over again that I donât believe this, you have absolutely no excuse for continuing to repeat this lie.
How exactly does ISK become less excessive by moving it from one person to another? The only way to get ISK out is to make more sinks.
Do you honestly not understand the concept that buying power is what matters, not the raw ISK numbers? ISK becomes less excessive if prices go up due to scarcity. Multiply all prices by 10 and 100 billion ISK now has the buying power of 10 billion ISK.
I have never seen you actually arguing for it.
Sure, if you close your eyes and never look for anything you can claim that you never see it and therefore your incessant lying is justified.
Why does it need to be earned?
Because earning success is what makes it have value. Since weâre talking about freedom of movement, consider the recent âvisit every system in EVE without dyingâ accomplishment. The player who did it got community-wide attention and official recognition from CCP because it was a major challenge that required skill and effort to overcome. Now imagine doing the same thing in a hypothetical version of EVE with no PvP or aggressive NPCs. It would simply be a matter of loading every system in EVE into your autopilot queue, pressing âactivateâ, and going AFK until it finishes. Hardly anyone would bother attempting to do it, and nobody would care about their success if they did.
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^ This is what we get for not making Econ 101 a mandatory part of the school curriculum.
Edit: and Philosophy 101.
So, you didnât bother reading and seeing that I said that menial low-effort farming tasks are available, and then proceeded to post about how you want exactly what I said you want.
Because youâve made it clear that what you want is for players who have no ability nor desire to engage in PvP to be forced to be fodder for you.
No. I want a game in which those players donât exist and nobody is fodder because they learn how to succeed in a PvP game or GTFO. Youâre the one who wants EVE to be full of people who are only interested in and/or capable of menial farming tasks and get slaughtered every time theyâre exposed to PvP.
Do I?
Youâve explicitly said that you want menial grinding to exist in EVE, and that means tying success directly to hours invested. For the players who choose to participate in that grind the only way to succeed is to treat EVE as a full-time job and play for a large number of hours. And you dare to accuse me of wanting to turn EVE into a job.
But raw ISK numbers affects buying power.
Affects =/= determines. Buying power is the supply of ISK relative to the supply of goods. If you want to reduce the total buying power of ISK you can do it in two ways: directly remove the amount of ISK via ISK sinks and reductions in ISK faucets, or reduce the supply of things people buy with ISK and force them to spend more ISK on each purchase.
Iâm not lying.
Yes you are. I have told you over and over and over and over again that I donât believe what you claim I believe, and you incessantly post the same old lie while pretending that if you close your eyes enough and ignore the evidence otherwise it doesnât exist.
So if more and more ISK pours into the system while assets become rarer it just makes people who can invest in assets increase their worth faster while newer players canât keep up.
Why are you assuming that new players canât invest in assets? Are new players incapable of mining and production? It does devalue newbie mission farming by crashing the value of the ISK payouts, but we should be happy that newbies are discouraged from spending time on EVEâs worst gameplay experiences.
And remember, youâre the one stating that highsec mining is not worth it from a âgain ISKâ point of view. Highsec mining is one of the few options available for newbies, and because it is a menial grind full of bot-like players the rewards from it have been devalued to the point where new players are commonly warned to avoid it.
And thereâs the problem.
No, itâs a difference in how we view games:
You think that enjoyment is something that is passively provided. You pay your $15/month, CCP provides you with guaranteed fun. This appeals primarily to people seeking mindless and valueless entertainment, the video game equivalent of streaming a mediocre TV show in the background while you eat.
I think that enjoyment is something earned by investing in a game. If you want to have fun go out and find it, and overcome the obstacles in your path. This turns away many players but appeals to the ones who seek the satisfaction of intellectual challenges and accomplishment.
Or, to put it in achievement terms: you want a game full of the âDid Chapter 1â story achievements, where you automatically unlock all of them merely by playing the game without quitting. I want a game full of the âkilled 3 enemies with one bulletâ achievements, where you have to work for it and itâs a meaningful accomplishment when you succeed.
You treat videos games like a career rather than entertainment.
So says the person advocating for menial farming tasks where youâre encouraged to press F1 and go AFK, and the only way to succeed is to âplayâ the game for a minimum of several hours a day.
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Removed a large number of off topic posts. Keep it on topic. Thanks.
@Destiny_Corrupted: Come and take it. Not a miner, I do missions and sites. If you manage to pop my ship or steal my stuff that means I got lazy or made a mistake.
If you come after me, Iâll warp because Iâm not fit up for pvp(or skilled and experienced in it) . However, Iâm aware that I can be attacked in hisec just as easily as in a wh. The only difference is that the authorities will avenge my death in hisec. Thatâs how eve is meant to be and I wouldnât want that to change.
I have no interest in pvp, but that doesnât mean Iâm going to complain about being attacked. Iâm not risk averse, or rich, and Iâm not scared either. Iâm just aware that if I donât want to pvp then I need to be prepared to avoid or escape, no matter where I am.
o7
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Then I donât have an issue with you.
I only have an issue with people who believe they should be able to completely opt out of PvP at will.
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yeah, no, that ainât happening in eve lol. Logging out is the only way to opt out. FYI, still trying to figure out how to quote people in here, about to run through the forum tut.
Am curious: is carebear merely someone with no interest in pvp, or someone who also whines about it being in game? Does my attitude as stated make me a carebear or no? If I am, fine. is just that I like to have a handle on definitions.
Either highlight a section of their post and a quote button will pop up, or click âreplyâ inside their post, and then you can quote their entire passage, or slice it up into sections manually (make sure to copy/paste the quote code tag and end quote tag before and after each quoted section).
Balanced EVE players will define âcarebearâ as the latter (someone who whines about it). Itâs perfectly alright to not be interested in PvP, as long as you accept its presence and importance in the game. If you donât want to fight anyone, but are fine with losing when you screw up by not taking proper precautions, or even die as an effect of normal entropy when you do take precautions, then youâre not a carebear.
Carebears define âcarebearâ merely as someone who doesnât engage in PvP as an attempt to hijack the term and give the people it describes legitimacy. They want to make persecution against carebears seem like persecution against any player who isnât a âgrieferâ (which in itself has varying definitions depending on who you ask).
Roger that, thanks. I would have loved to see those same people react to original Ultima Online before there was a pve server.
They cite Trammel as the pinnacle of fairness, justice, and progress in the world of MMO gaming. PvP is evil, and must be purged from the world in all its forms.
Fixed it 
Who is keeping this crap up?
This question alone is a provocationâŚ
I couldnât sleep. I was reading through the forum and saw a comment on here I wanted to respond to. I didnât think it was old enough to count as necromancy.
Destiny only plays the forum. Youâll never run into him in game.
After I finish programming my chat bot, I wonât have to play the forum either; it will be entirely automated. I mean, letâs face it, all interactions here can be encapsulated into about two dozen responses.
Also, I really donât understand how they allow you to so blatantly evade forum bans like this.
Stop lying. You know perfectly well that Iâm not evading anything.
High sec with a pinch of low and null sec.
But still high sec, just canât taste the low