Why the Loggerhead and Dagon CCP?

Ok Not sure where to put this or if a topic had been started before or not. Anyways Straight up simple question.


Seriously The Dagon is somewhat understandable combined with the Nos it is rather nasty so don’t have to much of a beef with that. But when I had heard the pirate factions were going to get their own capitals I was excited and set my toon to skill like made to fly them. Spent a long time skilling up Gallente and Caldari to fly the Guristas carrier. Was expecting to have a great combat ship considering all their ships are using bonuses to Drone damage and hitpoints. I fly the Rattlesnake fitted with Geckos as my primary ship just because of those bonuses.

Imagine my surprise when the Guristas capitals were released and I opened up the ship tree to see what skills I would need to finish training to use their ship at a respectable level and I see the one things I Was not expecting.

The Loggerhead.

A friggin logi carrier of all ships to put there it was a logi carrier… What a waste. oh yes, it has great bonuses to its drones but whoop di fragging doo!

The guristas a pirate faction that even it’s own description in the ship tree states.
Combines missiles and DRONES. Uses shields to outlast opponents.

Uses Drones!!! Combat! Fighting!!

I don’t think I have ever been so disappointed as I was that day. I had been offline for a long time due to real-world issues. Been struggling in the real world and now that I am more stable not perfect or great just stable I would like this question answered if possible.

CCP Why did you do this travisty of making the guristas known for huge bonuses to drones damage and hitpoints. So why give them a logi carrier.

That is like taking a squad of the strongest warriors in the world and then telling them “Your generals are Ghangis Khan, Attilla the Hun, and Ghandi. Now go and bring destruction and death to your enemies”.

Seriously I really want to know why give them a logi carrier. If CCP can give me a good rational logical explination then I will gladly and happily fly it but if they can’t I will forver complain that the giuristas have no carrier and need to get one in order for your supposed pirate capitals realease.

for flavor? and because they can?

Disappointment is good for you. It builds character.


I don’t know if you realize this, but the Guristas have capitals that combine missiles and drones.

the “Dagon”?

Are they taking cues from H.P. Lovecraft to name stuff?
This warms of the cockles of the heart.

Can’t wait to see how big the “Cthulu” is.
There better be a Cthulu. *shakes fist.

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No, not Lovecraft. Ancient Levantine myth.

Chemosh was the god of Moab, Dagon was the god of the Philistines, and Moloch was the god of Canaan.


The loggerhead is a FAX, not a carrier (literally says it in the top of the show info window), those are designed around remote reps, each race has one, go look at the likes of the Lif

As luck would have it, the game has two more Guristas Pirates captials named Caiman and Comodo.

Look them up, you may find them more appealing.


Eh, it’s a Force Auxiliary. Are you seriously complaining that the Guristas fax has bonuses for remote reps? :confused:

Are you aware what a force auxiliary is and does?

And it’s really nice that the Loggerhead is keeping the Guristas theme of fighting with drones with those logi drone bonuses!

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Fine yes it is a FAX there to replace the original triage carriers and yes I do know what a FAX does. It flies logi drones around to repair friendly targets as well as using Rep modules to also repair.

A FAX does not do combat it is a massive flying Logistical support ship AKA a giant flying bullseye since it and other logistic ships are just big targets that need to die in order to ensure you can kill the enemy.

Yes the logi drones are boosted so they live longer and can do massive reps but other than that it does nothing else drone wise.

Not correct there Yes every faction has one that has capitals except one the Sansha. The Revenant just got nerfed a bit from what it used to be but otherwise it is still a combat Carrier.

Yes I know that they are there the dreadnaught and the Titan. Yes I can fly the dreadnaught and I am a couple of months from being able to fly Titans. I got my carrier skills first before I finished training the skills needed for Dreadnaughts. So yes I can fly the Dreadnaught if I want I just wanted to know why they gave the Guristas faction a carrier that has no combat capabilities outside of repairing friendlies.

That’s because CCP made a fax, not a carrier.

It is a different ship type. The only thing a fax has in common with a carrier is the skillbook, for historic resons, otherwise it’s an entirely different ship type. This thread is similar to asking why the Triglavian ship line has a dread, but you wanted it to be a titan. Sure, you could ask CCP to also add the titan, but what is wrong with the dread? It’s just another ship type; apparently it’s not one you would like to fly, but some others might.

Anyway, if you want to ask CCP for pirate carriers, go ahead. I just don’t understand what pirate faxes have to do with it.

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Say you want to roam in a Dread Guristas ships fleet and one of you is a pacifist.
Since your pacifist buddy doesn’t like guns but doesn’t want your buddies to explode either, what is he supposed to fly mmh??

Sounds like you know very little.

I have flown logi in other fleets and the wing I was in ended up being wiped out because our FC was more interested in kills and simply told us to keep as many alive as we could before we died.

Another time I was flying logi during a territorial war we were ordered to a location and told to hold so that damaged ships trying to claim sov could come and get reps before moving back out instead we were used as bait to draw off defenders.

So yeah I have flown logi many a time in both combat and in mining ops both in WH and Null against rats and players.

I am just shy of having capital level shield, armor, and hull remote reps.

I know logi ships are crucial to keeping a fleet alive especially when deep in enemy territory or in strategic warfare.

At the same time I know that the reverse is true you want to eliminate an opposing fleet remove the small fast grappler and webber ships and then remove the logi so that way they cannot keep the heavy hitters alive.

that is the whole point Why give them a FAX if that is the case then they need to remove the Revanant and replace it with a FAX version for them.

One that would be a hell of a fun fleet to fly with.
Two, I will not deny that the FAX is a good ship I never denied that.
Three. If they want to fly a FAX they could fly a Gallentte or Caldari FAX since you have to have both to fly Guristas ships.

So Again yes the FAX is a good ship however it is logi only it has no offenssive capabilties yes it has support abilities but the way I see it if you can’t fly it solo then it isn’t a combat ship. Hell The orca and Porpoise can be rigged to fight if need be. The Rorqual can be fitted for offensive capabilities. The FAX class capital ships yes is just a different class of ship however the FAX is pure Logi like the other pure Logi ships however unlike the Sub-cap Logi it can’t defend itself.

So from where I stand any FAX is a great logi ship but outside of war, it serves no purpose whatsoever.

So again my question stands why give the Guristas let alone any faction besides the Sansha FAX carriers. If it is meant for all pirate factions to just have FAX then the revenant needs to be removed and replaced with a FAX as well. If all other factions but Sansha receive a FAX as their carrier option then I would ask what makes the Sansha so special to have a combat carrier and none of the others?

Because Sansha operate different Doctrines from the others? From the lore, Guristas would use a combination of Caldari and Gallante tactics, iirc

To be fair, a Guristas carrier with crazy bonus to drones, on a type of Hull that already is designed around drones with bonus to them by nature, would probably be broken AF.

So instead of doing it they tried something original and to give the drone bonus to an other type of ship.

Sansha operates using Energy weapons and Shields. I mean it isn’t to far from the Caldari who use mainly missiles and shields though some can use hybrid weapons. The tactics are not that far apart. True you can use heavy missiles and up at any range considering light and rockets have close to medium range so I will give you that one.

ok I will give you that one. Though if that is the case the Blood Raiders could have used another besides the FAX since it is only able to use Logi drones rather than the support fighters that have energy Neuts. It would be more fitting to use those than logi drones. Since it is a carrier nitpickers will say no it is a FAX but that is still a carrier since it is listed as a carrier in the regular factions along with their combat carriers.

Now then I forgot to mention the Serpentis in one of my other posts. They also have a combat carrier a variation of the Nyx so that is two combat carriers for pirate factions. So again my question stands Why give the Guristas a FAX (Though I will admit it would be crazy over powered due to the boosts they get) along with the Blood Raiders.

If a CCP member got on here and said that it would be to powerful and that is why the Guristas got a FAX I could leave that be but like I stated up above the Blood Raiders got screwed as well. Neuting drones would fit their game play much better than logi drones. True the carrier itself does get bonuses to the Nos but how long does it take that thing to lock onto anything smaller than a battleship?

Loggerhead barely gets any bonuses yes a little bit too remote shield reps and its own shield resistances but that is it. I mean yeah 4% to shields resistance per Caldari lvl and 5% remote shield rep per Gallentte lvl.

Dagon gets 30% boost to energy Nos for every Amarr lvl and 5% Remote armor rep per Minmitar lvl.

Vendetta gets 10% bonus to fighter damage 5% bonus to fighter hitpoints and 3+ bonus to ship warp core strength per lvl of Gallente. 5% bonus to fighter velocity 10% bonus to web burst projector and 3+ warp core strength for every Minmitar lvl

Revenant gets 5% bonus to fighter damage 5% fighter weapon explosion radius 3+ bonus to warp core strength for every Amarr lvl. 5% bonus to fighter damage 20% bonus to afterburner velocity and 3+ to warp core strength for every Caldari lvl

So in the grand scheme of things both Blood Raiders and Guristas feel like they got gipped in the carrier department.

Why the hatred against faxes? Because they don’t do damage?

They got a fax, not a carrier. Maybe they will get a carrier in the future, but I still don’t know what that has to do with these faxes.

You forget the logi drone bonuses of the loggerhead, that repping power is more than an extra basilisk or guardian with free selection of armour/shield/hull repair.

Also, NPCs arent players and dont actually do anything, so all this is total conjecture.

ok I will sum this up nicely for those who keep asking and don’t seem to get my answer.

FAX ARE USELESS OUTSIDE OF CAPITAL WARFARE!!! and hell from what I have seen capital warfare is stagnate outside of a handful of serious war efforts. So yes a FAX is usless because unless it is traveling with a capital fleet it would never undock. and before I get some on here going oh a high-sec pilot would say that I wil make this clear I have spent years in Null-sec and living in WH space the only reason I am stuck in high-sec at the moment is because of the change to roids has made our WH nearly useless.

Oh and as for the second point you made I didn’t forget the logi dI was listing just the ships abilities not the drones.

This is all from the perspective of a pod pilot using these ships I never brought up NPC’s outside of being a target.