Will ccp accept dogecoin to pay for subscriptions?

Communications Center General Discussion
86

Then you haven’t researched your scamcoins very well. The blockchain’s exponentially increasing calculation difficulty (the thing that gives it any value) will eventually reach a point where it is no longer possible to profitably generate blockchain cycles, at which point transactions will freeze and anyone holding bitcoins is screwed. We’ve already seen this with mining going from “anyone with a PC can do it” to “anyone with a PC and a high end video card can do it” to “you need dedicated ASIC farms” to “you need dedicated ASIC farms and cheap electricity in a third world country”, eventually it will no longer be practical for anyone.

That is counter productive to the goal of cryptocurrency.

It really isn’t. The short-term goals of buying drugs on the internet and making money from market speculation are served just fine by a time-limited currency. The ticking clock is only a problem for the people dumb enough to be holding bitcoins when the clock runs out, the people who developed bitcoin have already cashed out plenty of wealth.

Cryptocurrency is backed by fiat money

No it isn’t. No state sets a fixed bitcoin to dollar (or whatever) ratio that you can rely on having, which is what backing with gold/currency/etc means. The only way to exchange bitcoin for state-issued currencies is to convince a currency trader to make a market transaction.

Like I said, scamcoin fanboys are happy to gloat about the superiority of their scamcoins but have nothing but excuses when confronted with the reality of their scam.

87

Gamestop (GME) is not speculative market mania at all, oh yes, naked shorting :slight_smile: not illegal at all, very rhobust market that, high integrity

Oh yes, blocking buys and only allowing sells, very rhobust, limiting lot sizes

How dare the little person profit

Collusion, naked shorting, manipulation… and let’s not even get into forex and metals market manipulation

Monetary base inflated how much last year?

Aand yes negative interest rates to punish savers, how dare they save, force them to spend!

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88

You’re confusing crypto mining with legitimate investment. That shows a lack of knowledge, not a sinister plan within the crypto market.

Crypto is literally backed by fiat money. You put fiat money into it, you get fiat money out of it. just like stocks, the value changes frequently. The only difference between the stock market and crypto is the lack of predatory regulations.

89

No it isn’t. For a currency to be backed by something it means that there is a fixed exchange rate guaranteed. For example, when US dollars were backed by gold the federal government literally had a pile of gold bars that you could trade your paper dollars for, at a guaranteed exchange rate.

Scamcoins have no such thing. No state offers a guaranteed exchange rate between bitcoin and their state-issued currency. The only way to convert bitcoin into anything is to convince someone to make a trade on the open market. And if the value of bitcoin crashes there is no guarantee whatsoever that you will be able to convert your bitcoins into any other currency.

just like stocks, the value changes frequently

That’s literally the opposite of what “backing” means in a currency context.

You’re confusing crypto mining with legitimate investment.

You do understand that mining is required for bitcoin to function, right? If mining stops then bitcoin becomes worthless because you can no longer make transactions with it.

91

Crypto was born out of the economic crash as anarchist capitilism as a result of distrust.

That is why they’re tryign to take control of it by regulation when in fact it is anti-regulation, they fear you having self control. they want custody!

Protect the banks, and force deposits, then they can control your spending with interest rates and what not.

It’s about removing intermedaries, p2p, about self-custody, taking back control. Can’t have that now.!

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92

It was born out of entitled white dudes* wanting to buy pot on the internet. It did pretty well for that, until the major dealer site had a lapse in security and got shut down.

*Since its vastly overhyped anonymity is nothing more than “I’m white, cops don’t care enough about my drug purchases to trace the transaction chain”.

93

You obviously have not read the papers or you simply fear it.

I think it’s the latter otherwise you would move on for the failure it is, let it fail then. Not your problem.

Let it fail and we can all have egg on our faces, you can yell “I told you so”, fine with me, toodles.

For something that’s such a failure in your eyes, you get all worked up over it. Why so?

If it’s such a failure, why does MC and V want in on the action? Surely their payment network is better? Nothing to worry about?

Those with the most to lose and most to fear, shout the loudest no?

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94

Ok, we’re simply using different terms.
It isnt officially backed, you’re correct. However, It has a monetary value that fluctuates. That fluctuation is the result of conjecture, investment, and transactions.
Sounds an awful lot like stocks, doesn’t it.

I do understand that mining is required. That’s because there are more and more transactions using the cryptocurrency. Mining verifies the legitimacy of the transaction, and they get paid to be the First to properly verify it, in blocks of 1mb. The technology has had to advance to speed up the process.
Again, that does not mean there is a sinister plot within the crypto market. it means the technology is evolving as it continues to exist and expand.

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95

The fatal flaw in bitcoin is that the technology can’t advance. It’s an inherent restriction of the blockchain concept that the calculations are constantly increasing in difficulty. Speeding up the process runs right into two fatal problems:

  1. If you remove the exponential difficulty curve you remove the limit on the total number of bitcoins and devalue the currency.

  2. Bitcoin literally can’t change its algorithm. The algorithm math is inherent to the blockchain, there is no way to change the math without making an entire new coin with a new blockchain starting from zero. Maybe that’s fine for people investing in the new coin but it does nothing to help the people who are invested in bitcoin.

It isnt officially backed, you’re correct.

So you admit that bitcoin is just a fiat currency like any state-issued fiat currency, except without the state support that ensures that it will maintain value.

96

Because they can cash in on short-term profits, and because they’re only offering transaction processing (IOW, selling their scamcoins for real currency as soon as they get them) they have nothing at stake in the scamcoin market.

97

That’s called payments, yes, we do it with floating currencies in global trade all the time. Welcome to Nixon.

That’s exactly how we do payments with forex and crypto too today and yesterday.

You discovered nothing new.

Just because we’re paying with it doesn’t mean we’re holding it in reserves, we may do, we may not. As I explained at other times, we also get some benefits by using it, such as avoiding reaccuring payment problems and cancellations.

You don’t have to hodle it to spend it and reap the benefits of it. We lock in an agreed rate, be it intra-day or previous close, nothing different here except timescale of the rate lock.

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98

The technology can and IS advancing.
There is a hard cap on the total number of bitcoins, that’s precisely Why it retains value as opposed to other cryptocurrencies that have no limit, like dogecoin.
The miners increase every month, and they speed up their abilities because they have to be the First to get paid. The algorithm doesn’t have to change. It just needs more people to maintain the infrastructure. That’s the whole point behind decentralized infrastructure. The company that made it doesn’t have to keep at the cutting edge of technology, the people involved do. It spreads the cost and reward, maintaining the value.

It’s not technically a fiat currency, but it is held up and valued by fiat currency. I do not hold with Zoiie’s argument of breaking free of the current financial system. I see the problems, I see the benefits. I do not see it failing completely. For the entire banking system to fail, all of civilization would have to fall. If that happens, bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency wouldn’t matter anyway.
That is why it’s good to diversify your investments. Precious metals, commodities, stocks, land, crypto. I’m sure other people invest in more than I do, but that’s what I’m into and it’s working for me. Regardless of your thoughts on my wealth.

99

And the point is that there is a finite limit to how fast you can do the calculations. The difficulty of each blockchain iteration is increasing, and we’re already at the point where you need dedicated ASIC farms in third-world countries with cheap electricity. Eventually even that won’t be enough, and there’s nowhere to go from there in terms of processing capability.

It just needs more people to maintain the infrastructure.

But why are those people going to do it? The amount of value they receive in payment is less than their costs of running the mining system. This is the inherent problem with bitcoin, it’s a decentralized system with an exponentially growing cost to participate in the system.

it is held up and valued by fiat currency.

It really isn’t. When bitcoin collapses no fiat currency will rescue it, everyone who holds bitcoin will just lose everything.

100

That depends on the technological advances in electricity production. Also, you have to take into account advances in processing speeds and cores, higher quality ramm and gpu’s, better programs to mine with. A lot of variables dictate the continued advancement in miner farms.
I know of 1 person, about 7 miles from me, that has a dedicated server for mining. He invested in more solar than even I did, which significantly lowers his electricity related costs short term. I’ve no idea if his system is paid off or if he’s paying on it regularly, so I can’t come up with a proper expenditure. I honestly don’t know how common it is for people to mine, but i expect it’s probably more common than you imagine.

As with any technology advancement, the initial costs are higher and fewer users involved. Eventually, as it plateau’s the costs will be more dependent on electricity costs than hardware costs. There are ways to get around the electricity cost, and several companies that are trying to build massive solar farms to compete with traditional electricity production. It’s an eventuality. I should be invested in that field, but I’m not. Something I should probably consider more.

You seem to misunderstand. bitcoin isnt going to collapse. It’s only gaining in popularity, with more and more offshoots of the original technology coming out and also jumping in value. You seem to think this is a short term issue that will implode.
I and many others do not feel that’s the case. This is why there are more and more cryptocurrencies every year. Some have shitty design, like Cardano and XRP, and will never grow like bitcoin did. I’ve mentioned why in previous posts.
More decentralized infrastructure formore cryptocurrencies means more miners. Technically, that means more purchases of hardware, software, and use of electricity. All over the world.
If you consider the psychological changes in at least the US, there is less and less trust in traditional financial systems. People don’t want their money monitored and/or controlled by other people.
We’re literally watching governments printing off more and more money. You’d think that would tank the actual value of the fiat currency. It has in the past, and may do so in the future. That Will impact cryptocurrency too.
We’ve literally watched and continue to watch the stock market as shorting stocks becomes commonly used terminology. People are becoming more aware of how rigged the stock market is.
They want a better way to invest, and cryptocurrency is there for them.

101

There are none expected. And remember, the bitcoin algorithm’s difficulty has no upper limit. Even if technology does improve it can only delay the crash, eventually you will reach physical limits where it is impossible to do better and bitcoin will end.

I know of 1 person, about 7 miles from me, that has a dedicated server for mining.

Your friend is almost certainly losing money. Solar power is not free, aside from the costs to buy and maintain the panels you’re also choosing to use the power you generate for bitcoin mining instead of selling it back to the utility company.

I honestly don’t know how common it is for people to mine, but i expect it’s probably more common than you imagine.

Oh, I know it’s very common. But the vast majority of them are losing money by mining, they’re just too ignorant to realize it. And we’re long past the point where random people mining at home can keep the bitcoin system functioning.

As with any technology advancement, the initial costs are higher and fewer users involved.

No, it’s exactly the opposite with bitcoin. Initial costs were extremely low, and the bitcoin algorithm inherently drives costs up over time. In fact, the more users bitcoin gets the faster prices go up because more of the finite number of available transactions are being used up.

There are ways to get around the electricity cost

Not in the foreseeable future. We do not have any foreseeable technology that will make electricity generation free. That is the kind of post-scarcity scifi utopia thing where money won’t be relevant anyway.

You may find this article interesting: Bitcoin consumes 'more electricity than Argentina'. We’re already at the point where bitcoin requires country-level electrical power and it’s only getting more expensive from here.

You seem to misunderstand. bitcoin isnt going to collapse

You seem to misunderstand. Bitcoin is required to collapse because of its algorithm. The only question is when exactly it will collapse. No amount of wishful thinking will change the inevitable math and physics facts that bitcoin has a finite number of transactions available before it ceases to function.

102

If you want long term wealth storage, we all know that’s gold and property. That is, if you want multi generational wealth preservation.

If that is what is worrying you. Fiat currencies also come and go. Many have. What is the average lifespan of a fiat currency? Not long really. It’s a currency, not money, only gold is a proven international wealth store. Real money is minted from precious metals. What you’re holding is “currency”. It’s not even any longer a “certificate” of claim on metals as it historically used to be.

Crypto will come and go too in many guises, crypto itself mathmatically is a very useful tool in the digital infromation age, gold will win out as always. Not sure anybody is disputing that crypto is not a proven store of value. But, as a currency I want to use it for transactions and to rid of intermediaries as per the whitepaper… And that is what this thread is about. Accepting it for a medium of value exchange just as we do fiat currency. Real money is gold and metals. Now we’re arguing over currency vs money, and there IS a difference.

There’s a reason why your metal coinage gets less and less precious content, they diddle you. Just as the old kings used to fiddle the metals on their coins. Just as countries devalue their currencys to manipulate their export markets. Also why OLD coinage is very valuable, metal content, on top of the history. Also why sovereign minted coinage and investment grade gold is capital gains tax exempt, old laws, nice profits over long time. That’s why you hodl gold sovereigns and investment grade gold over multiple generations, also CGT exempt in many places, it’s one of the few exemptions :slight_smile: Also why the sovereign states confiscate and prohibit it, it’s money, also used as good sound collateral.

103

Awww, that’s cute, you think that gold is not a fiat currency.

I want to use it for transactions and to rid of intermediaries as per the whitepaper

How’s that working out for you? Sure seems like your plan to pay for EVE with fakecoins has more intermediaries than me giving CCP $15/month like a normal person.

104

Until you find that asteroid loaded with gold falling onto your house, it’s sound “money” on this planet. (some meterorites can be quite valuable actually)

105

It’s still a fiat currency whose value is derived from agreement to use it as currency, just like any other fiat currency.

106

There’s nothing more sound than gold as money on this planet until something changes. It has been that way for centuries and will be until something changes to effect that.

Money vs currency. There is a difference.

Gold is also a hedge for crisis. (note I didn’t say inflation, I said crisis).

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