Will ccp accept dogecoin to pay for subscriptions?

Communications Center General Discussion
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There has been some promising developments in fusion in the last few years.

There are also several companies that are working on massive solar farms in southwest utah and in nevada. If they can get going, they could reliably produce all the power the United States needs. Of course, that’ll come with some infrastructure upgrades at some point too.
Not exactly free energy for the consumer, but much less than we have currently. I read an article claiming that US power companies are planning to arbitrarily double the cost of electricity sometime in the next couple of years.
When that happens, There will be significant push for solar and fusion.

Crypo algorithm’s are complex, I’ll give you that. However, that complexity can be, and is overcome by more involved servers and miners. Again, it spreads out the load. In the future, the only real limitation will be bandwidth.
That’s being somewhat solved too, with DOCSIS 3.1 and fiberoptics. Those technologies will continue to improve as well.

If he is still paying for his solar setup, you’re probably right. If he paid it off completely, then he’s potentially making that money back if he’s able to solve mining queries before anyone else.
As for losing money because he’s not selling excess back to the power company, perhaps.
However, there are several states that actually don’t allow you to have more solar power than you actually use, so you couldn’t sell it back anyway.
I do look at the potentially lost income, but I wouldnt necessarily call it an expenditure.

I think if people realized they were losing money, they’d most certainly pull out of their loss and go elsewhere. It doesn’t really make sense to keep pouring money into something that costs more than you gain.

As for the initial costs, what I mean is that the costs for the hardware and bandwidth. I mean, if you look at new graphics cards and processors, they’re always more expensive at first, then lower in price as they become more efficient.
That is also another consideration for the advancing technology and power needs. Everything is becoming more efficient every year. Our current computer technology isnt really changing drastically, as far as how it works.

Bitcoin will only collapse if everyone suddenly decides to sell out their coins. The number of transactions isnt limited at all. The verification of transactions can be limited by number of miners involved.

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Technically speaking, with the recent announcement that companies like paypal will use crypto for transactions, it appears the plan is going along nicely.

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There really isn’t.

And? The only way any of this gets around the fundamental problem with bitcoin’s transaction limit is if we end up in a post-scarcity free energy utopia. And at that point who cares about bitcoin? Money has no purpose anymore.

However, that complexity can be, and is overcome by more involved servers and miners.

It can not. FFS, please do some research on the specific algorithm and how it is deliberately designed to constantly increase in difficulty with every iteration of the blockchain. You can’t overcome this with better hardware because no matter how much hardware you add the algorithm will continue to increase in difficulty.

I do look at the potentially lost income, but I wouldnt necessarily call it an expenditure.

Then you don’t understand accounting and opportunity costs. Bitcoin depends on people like you, who don’t understand finance and will willingly lose money to keep bitcoin going.

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So your plan to get rid of intermediaries like paypal is to pay for stuff using paypal? Brilliant plan.

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How much PLEX will I get for Rai Stones?

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I don’t recall a plan to get rid of companies like paypal.

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The whole point of bitcoin is to get rid of companies like paypal!

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The alternative is forced custodians. That is what we’re trying to get control back of, they took away bearer bonds, they took away bearer equity certificates, they want to dominate CUSTODY. A means to control you.

That is what they’re trying to do to Bitcoin now, alienate private wallets to take custody. Force a segregation of people. Anything not under their control and custody is to be demonised.

Standard play book, we did this with bonds, equity and currency and now crypto.

Anything except self custody, that they do not want en masses.

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If it cant be used to control people and things, is it useful?

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It is, for those people that participate in the transaction and exchange directly p2p.

It is not useful to the state if they cannot control you.

Fiat is a liability on the central bank books.

Historically we used private currencies anyway.

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I don’t believe that having cheaper or free energy would necessarily put us in a post-scarcity utopia. Money will still be a thing.

It literally can. the merkle root references previous transactions. it doesn’t contain all previous transactions. blocks are limited to 1mb each, so the processing of them at high speed can be done properly. The problem is the sheer number of hashes that has to be attempted prior to a successful one. That will probably be addressed. If not, computing power will simply evolve.
Necessity drives innovation.

I do understand opportunity costs and accounting, though maybe not as much as I should. That doesn’t change the fact that several states will Not allow you to have more solar than you use, effectively removing the potential income from over production. There goes your opportunity cost.
That happens to be the case in the state I live in, thus the power he is using to mine was probably intended specifically for that purpose. Therefore, no loss.
I’m interested to find out from him about the specifics, so I will give him a call to discuss it.

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Ok, so then the opposition this new situation would come from both the establishment and anyone not involved not wanting a whole new bunch of folk controlling finances rather than the old sacks of crap establishment we at least know.

I.E. once the biggest players in this game become entrenched, the democratisation of capital will surely also cease.

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I think that idea might be a goal of the future, but not anytime soon.

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Then you don’t understand economics. The only way that energy will be free is if money is no longer relevant, otherwise cheaper energy just means better profits for energy companies.

The problem is the sheer number of hashes that has to be attempted prior to a successful one.

Now you’re starting to get it. The number of hashes is designed to grow without upper limit. This is what limits the number of bitcoins and gives them value, but it also puts a limit on how many transactions can be processed before processing an additional transaction costs more than the value it generates.

Necessity drives innovation.

Or people just dump bitcoin and the whole thing collapses. There’s a limit to how much R&D budget people are willing to invest in better and better ASIC farms, and once that investment ends bitcoin dies.

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I do understand economics.
Solar is already available, so you can cut your electricity cost out. If you choose to or can afford to is not the point right now.
I do not have an electricity bill. I don’t know anyone in the surrounding area that does. I’ll have to pay more attention for power lines, to be honest.
I still have money, because other things cost money. Other things will always cost money as long as we have capitalism. We will probably always have capitalism.

The number of hashes does grow, but again, once that transaction is verified, it becomes a reference in the merkle root. The hashes will grow in digits, but that isnt a significant issue. It will take more processing power to keep maintaining more and more digits. Those digits arent going to double overnight. It will take decades, and as it grows so will the technology to process it.
That is actually the beauty of it. It grows.

There is no limit to how much people will invest into R&D for better computer systems. You also have to take into account that there is a lot of serious work going into quantum computing. That will blast the current barrier to shreds.

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Of course there is. Do you even know what “ASIC” stands for, and how building a better bitcoin ASIC doesn’t necessarily give you any value outside of bitcoin processing?

And on top of this there are physical limits involved. For example, heat dissipation limits your transistor density and clock cycles per second. PCB trace length limits your clock speed for systems involving multiple components. At high enough clock speeds all of your PCB traces turn into RF broadcast antennas. Etc. And the closer you get to physical limits the higher your R&D costs get. Meanwhile the difficultly of the bitcoin calculations is happily increasing without any upper bound, so even if you take one step forward in processing power bitcoin takes two steps forward in difficulty.

Finally, remember that bitcoin is not supported by any parent entity. If the US dollar threatens to collapse I can trust that the US government will do everything they can to prevent it. If bitcoin mining ceases to be profitable there is nothing stopping the people designing mining hardware from saying “ok, that’s it for us” and mining coming to an end. And then shortly after that point bitcoin crashes and nobody steps in to prevent it.

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Ok, so you’re talking about hardware specifically for cryptocurrency.
There are many fields that have hardware that cost billions to produce, and are limited to one field. That isnt really anything new. As the value of crypto increases, there in incentive to develop those technologies.

Heat dissipation is an issue for all computer hardware. Right now that is mitigated with extensive cooling systems, both in terms of air cooling and air current pushing, and liquid cooling directly on hardware.
Those systems currently work pretty well, and with quantum computing will almost go away.

As for there being no saving mechanism in place, that is an actual concern. However, multiple governments are considering not only regulations, but support. There’s just too much money in it already to not support it.
Even after more than a decade, this is still just a baby trying to grow up. It will grow up, and remain a market.

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On a side note, apparently there are people flagging this conversation, so I doubt it’ll remain up very much longer. Just got several notifications at once.

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Yes, because ASIC farms are the only way to mine bitcoin. And there are many fields with expensive hardware, but those fields don’t have a constantly increasing difficulty that requires an unlimited R&D budget. At some point R&D costs will exceed the value of further mining and bitcoin will end.

Right now that is mitigated with extensive cooling systems, both in terms of air cooling and air current pushing, and liquid cooling directly on hardware.

IOW, “right now we throw tons of money at the problem, and we will have to throw more and more money at it as CPU demands continue to increase without any upper limit”.

Those systems currently work pretty well, and with quantum computing will almost go away.

I’m not sure how you think that heat issues will go away when quantum computing systems have to be cooled to barely above absolute zero to function. Are you aware that “quantum computing” does not mean “magic scifi supercomputer that can do everything”?

PS: are you aware that bitcoin’s calculation difficultly is required for bitcoin to function? And that if the calculations are too easy the blockchain loses all integrity, it becomes possible to reverse transactions or generate false transactions at will, and bitcoin becomes worthless?

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Based on everything i’ve read about quantum computing, and its future, there are already system designs to keep it as cold as it needs to be. I would assume they mean that those designed systems are going to be in place for situations with extremely high computation.
Otherwise, why even bother?

As for your PS. Yes, I am aware that it needs to be difficult. There are encryption protocols for user protections, as well as the whole mining process. It is difficult, and has to be, or some nefarious individuals would be able to easily distort it. Like they are constantly trying to do to banks.
That complexity is figured into the conversation above, or so I thought.

my own PS; I’ve read of several situations where people have tried to hijack bitcoin transactions and to fabricate false ones. They’ve failed due to the strict protocols in place.