Would you join the fight?

[Elissa_Rayne]

This is not a recruitment thread. This thread is simply to gauge whether there would be enough general interest in the venture we propose and to gather information on the sort of requests people would have in regards to it.

Are you tired of cartels of criminal organisations spreading their tyranny through high sec? Do you tire of their arrogance going unchecked? Do you tire of them imposing their will upon others? Are you tired of seeing kill boards full of defenceless victims? What would it take for you to fight for the right of your fellow pilots to fly free?

I’m not just talking about gankers, I’m talking about fighting criminal organisations of all kinds, from ganking to war dec extortion. Anybody who would target a ship without weapons simply because they can. People who claim they want pvp content but only pick on those who can’t shoot back.

The Freedom Prospect is searching to see what sort of interest is out there for corps with PvP experience and seeking genuine PvP content to join a new alliance dedicated to hunting down criminals in a legitimate manner.

Why should you do such a thing? I can feel some of you thinking.

Probably because it’s going to be the most challenging thing you could ever do in the game. Let’s ignore the griefers who are inevitably going to target you on these forums for expressing interest in such a challenge. I would bet a substantial amount of isk on the inevitability of the “yet another anti-gank idiot doomed to fail” posts due to flood in. Taking down these criminals is going to be an uphill struggle for you both in game and out. We’re likely to be outnumbered and lack the resources of these larger organisations. They’re going to do everything they can to make you quit both in game and out. They are entrenched and we are just starting to spread our fledgeling wings.

However, if you’re willing to fight harder, fight smarter and fight farther than they are then this is the challenge for you. If you can charge in to the fray no matter how many guns are pointing back at you; if you want a true, bloody, pvp experience against targets that can actually shoot you back, this challenge is for you. If you want something that will truly test you and push your skill to its limits then this challenge is for you and damned be anybody who tries dissuade you otherwise with their petty attempts to hurt you with words. Chances are we’ll never be victorious. There will always be someone out there looking to prey on the defenceless. But as long as we stand between them and their prey we can hold our heads up high.

I know there are still people out there who still think this way, but the question is are there enough of you willing to band together and actually fight as one?

What would Freedom Prospect offer in return for your blood? Whilst I do have PvP experience (mostly FW, though that is on the PvP side of it not the plexing side of it) I’m not looking to lead this army. Freedom Prospect is looking for corps who can manage their own member count and FC their own combat fleets but are willing to work under the larger banner of the alliance with Alliance FCs being elected by the corps that make up the alliance. Unfortunately these days I find myself with too little play time to manage corp recruitment, FC or even do tasks to fund my PVP losses. However, I do still want to be involved in the push towards PvP and taking out criminals. As such, should there be enough interest in fighting these criminal organisations on a scale that would see some success, Freedom Prospect will act as the executor corp for the alliance, fund the alliance fees and maintain a war against at least one criminal alliance at all times. In addition we will try to secure funding from third parties to fund wars on more criminal organisations providing it would not over extend us militarily.

So who out there wants to take on the greatest challenge eve has to offer?

[Agondray]

sounds interesting if it can actually be pulled together and laid out. the majority of anyone in high sec though will just dock up at the first sign of trouble. Even the merc corps will run to dock if they see a fleet of WT that can potentially take them on

[Xuxe_Xu]

Who decides who is criminal?

If it drives conflict, though -
good, gl.

[Mr_Zeppo]

This exactly the kind of thing I have been hoping to see the EVE community build!

If I was flying solo, I would join.
If I had a leadership in the Corp and Coalition I belong to I would get them both involved.

I hope to see more from this project!

[Commander_Kane]

Another white knight alliance.

Oh god I came back to EVE at the right time.

[Dracvlad]

It is a nice idea and a number of people have been there before you, however I think you are going about it the wrong way, the worst thing you could have done is announcing the idea on the Eve forums, especially in C&P.

Also you have to be very selective and targeted in terms of what you can do and who you go after in the initial period of growing and developing the idea, do not jump into the deep end right from the word go.

Your biggest issue is finding enough players who are prepared to get stuck in, most hisec players are not really engaged enough in PvP to bother and have an inability to form into groups of any size. And I think that is what you will find impossible to get around.

With the changes to war decs you can operate on your mains while developing PvP characters to chop and change their corps as needed, this is the most important thing you need to do, use it. Use the ability to ally, plonk down a POS some where, then ally on the war, switch the characters in as needed. That is the only way you can be effective and control your battles. If you do that you will become a right royal pain in the butt to war deckers for example.

NB

@Maekchu

To the OPs defense, the thread was made initially in GD and has been moved. Not that it’s any better, just saying

Thanks for the clarification, and yeah it is not any better.

[Maekchu]

@Dracvlad

the worst thing you could have done is announcing the idea on the Eve forums, especially in C&P.

To the OPs defense, the thread was made initially in GD and has been moved. Not that it’s any better, just saying

[Black_Pedro]

@Elissa_Rayne

This is not a recruitment thread. This thread is simply to gauge whether there would be enough general interest in the venture we propose and to gather information on the sort of requests people would have in regards to it.

I’m not interested in playing the game for others too lazy or disinterested to play the game themselves. Teaching, yes. Sharing information yes but spending my limited game time white-knighting for someone too lazy or greedy for fun? No thanks.

If that’s how you want to make a mark on New Eden then go knock yourself out, but personally I’ll throw my lot in with people playing the game. Not with those actively trying to kill the gameplay available so they can gather resources while no paying attention to their game client.

[Lexie_Huren]

Well, if there’s one thing high sec folks know how to do it’s multibox. But are they willing to use it to do something other than run five Orcas, three exhumers, six barges and one venture at a time?

[Marcus_Luttrell_Khan]

What about 5 rorquals, 3 supers, 6 carriers, and one titan at a time in null?

This is reminiscent of the plank and the speck

[Lexie_Huren]

I’m not sure how the biblical reference fits in here. Would you mind elaborating please?

[Elissa_Rayne]

Agondray :- If they’re forced to dock up for a lengthy period of time I’d call that a win honestly, but this is about pvp and if they’re war eligible that would mean they have a structure we could hunt down and pop while they cower behind a npc station. We wouldn’t stop the destruction until they were no longer war eligible. That’s the ultimate goal.

Xuxe_Xu :- Honestly I think any corp/alliance that ganks, extorts, war decs to force dock ups or is known to support alts that do so. (I mean as a corp, not a corp that has 1 indicvidual who secretly ganks on the side). We may need an agreed definition or some sort of voting system where any member corp can veto a proposed war against a corp that is blatantly not criminal. Maybe simply a discussion with people providing evidence of malpractice. Hell, a a brief look at a killboard is normally enough. Right now I’m more about gauging interest than putting a solid system for that in place.

Mr_Zeppo :- If we can actually form this alliance and become successful then I’m sure we’d be looking to form coalitions with others to take on bigger fish. But that’s further down the road.

Dracvlad :- I’m aware people have tried before and ultimately failed but that shouldn’t mean we don’t try again. I intentionally did not post in crime and punishment because this section of the forums is mostly patrolled by gankers and I feel gets much less traffic than general discussion but it was rather unfortunately moved by a mod. It’s one of the reasons why I put a huge disclaimer at the top saying this isn’t an actual recruitment thread so that it didn’t get moved there because it definitely would have died there. I’m not sure where else I really could have put this apart from the official forums. I know there’s a reddit but would that have really been any better than the forums? I honestly couldn’t say which gets more traffic.

You’re right about what you say about not jumping in at the deep end, that’s one of the reasons why I’m gauging a general interest first, so I can start looking at initial targets. Whilst I’m sure it would be fun to wipe CODE off the face of New Eden, I’m not naïve enough to try to take them on straight away even if we had the numbers. We’d have to prove we an work cohesively before taking on such a huge alliance with a large amount of resources. I know that.

I’m not really trying to target high sec players specificity. I’m targetting any player interested in PvP and looking for a proper fight and a proper challenge. As you’ve pointed out these attempts have often failed in the past. But it will be a challenge and a good fight, and that’s what I’m hoping to draw people in with. Also as I said in the original post, this fight will never see victory because there will always be criminal organisations out there to fight, but that just means endless content for us, right? I often see members of these organisations claiming they’re making content, well lets take advantage of that content. (Yes I know they don’t mean “we’re targets to shoot giving you reason to shoot us” but that’s how we’re going to interpret such statements, right?)

I appreciate your strategic input.

Black_Pedro :- If you think this is about playing the game for others you’re gravely mistaken. This is about playing the game the way you want. If that’s being interested in PvP, then why not put that interest to good use. But that’s the point isn’t it, this is a game and it should be fun, and I’m honestly a little tired of people painting indy only players as lazy just because they don’t want to PvP. They’re trying to play the game the way they think is fun also. They’re not interested in blowing people up, they like spreadsheets and trying to maximise profits for minimal effort so they can apply that left over effort to new ways of making profit. I’ve looked at industry before and honestly it just frustrates me, but I’ve got a lot of contacts into industry and honestly the amount of times I go afk for a few hours and come back and they’re doing the same thing, that’s not lazy and it’s unfair to paint it as so. And sure they may be able to do things outside of game whilst they do something like mine, but most of the time that’s spend shifting through spreadsheets and looking up prices so they can figure out what is and isn’t worth investing in. As a PvP player I put nowhere near that amount of time or effort into what I do. I spend an hour or so browsing for interesting fits then pop out for another couple of hours to blow some people up. The rest of it is waiting on skills to fly new fits that I may not have the skills to fly effectively yet. Hell there’s been times I’ve been talking to Indy contacts when they’re not even playing the game and they’re still looking at eve based spreadsheets. So I will never see industrialists as lazy and I will always feel people who do are horribly misguided and ill informed.

If it’s a choice between using my PvP skills to stop people playing the way they want or stopping people stopping people from playing the way they want, I’m going to fall on the latter. At the very least I’m not going to shoot something that doesn’t shoot back unless they’re in a corp we’re already at war with because that’s just not fun. That’s just not PvP. I’m not interested in padding my killboard with kills, I’d rather see it padded with deaths and go yeah, that was a good fight.

Lexie_Huren :- I being the heathen I am have no idea there’s even a biblical reference in there but I feel the general gist is that null sec folk do a lot of multiboxing also, it’s not really a high sec thing.

( For those inevitably going to comment I could have @mentioined people, you can’t if you’re under a certain limit of posts on a given character apparently.)

[Rita_Toralen]

Think there are a lot of people who would love the depth of vigilante vs criminal in Eve. Unfortunately, gankers have it stacked for them. To be an anti-ganker, you really can only react. Being proactive involves warping away, more or less. Until that changes, I doubt you will gather too many. It’s been tried, many times. People have been asking for years for a way to bring non-consensual PvP against gankers. Which is funny, because gankers say it’s part of the game but are against any changes that makes it hard for others to come at them.

Best of luck with the endeavor, all the same!

Also, I find it funny how gankers complain about mining multi-boxes when they have people twenty boxing gates in high sec. They claim they’re against botting programs, yet openly run them, themselves. Speck and plank is very fitting, indeed

[Elissa_Rayne]

@Rita_Toralen I share the same sense of comical irony as you do over the ganker accusations and protests and I agree we need more tools to fight them. However, I do feel the game has changed slightly with the new PoS and war systems. Yes, in the past we could declare war on any corp we want, but now if those corps who rely on war decs to target indies and avoid concord want to keep doing so they have to have a structure, and if they have a structure that makes them war eligible, which gives us a target to take down to make things inconvenient for them. I realise we can no longer war dec gankers in corps that don’t own structures and that’s an extra layer of protection for gankers they didn’t previously enjoy but large ganking organisations like CODE do maintain PoSs we could again hunt down. Then if they want to dock up and lose all their PoSs that’s up to them but otherwise it forces them to engage us, it’s no longer just sitting on a gate waiting for a gank to interdict (though alliance members would be welcome to do that in their free time), it’s now about forcing them to engage or incur losses even when they don’t. Now again I should make it clear to anybody interested we wouldn’t be going after such a big fish so early, they’re merely a well known example for me to use. If we ever push an organisations to being invalid for war we can move to the next one and keep an eye on the previous corps status to start again when they decide to rebuild.

[Daoden]

I’d rather see high sec shrink rather than go after those guys. It would make me smile if there was no way to go from amarr to jita without hitting a low sec system.

[Dracvlad]

I don’t want to be overly negative because with the changes to war decs I think something like you are proposing could be done and I am interested. I have ideas and suggestions, and am keeping tabs on certain parts of the game to see if this could develop, for example since wars were tied to structures I am hoping that people will start to gang up to defend key structures.

But that push to gang up seems to require most hisec players to learn the lesson that being one of many is not a good defence.

Feel free to contact me in game.

[Xan_Staraider]

As an agent of the New Order of High Sec I think it is awesome that you are doing this.

All pvp is good pvp and it is in the spirit of the Code, and a step towards full compliance.

Of course High Sec is New Order space and the CODE. alliance will put down any and all rebellions. If we don’t destroy your alliance outright, you will be forced to move to Nullsec like so many before you.

Let the wars for High Sec begin!

Praise James! \o/

[Black_Pedro]

@Elissa_Rayne

So I will never see industrialists as lazy and I will always feel people who do are horribly misguided and ill informed.

There are plenty of non-lazy, competent industrialists and even PvE-focussed players who play this game. The thing is, they aren’t the ones that need your protection from the few amount of criminals left in highsec. They take the simple precautions to keep their space assets safe without needing some white knight to save them.

New players might need some help, but it is much better to try to teach them how to better play the game - the mechanics and how to be aware - than to try to play the game for them.

So who does being a white knight benefit? Only the lazy and greedy who cut corners for their own gain. By all means, go mess with criminals all you want as after all, they are suppose to be content for everyone. But that has to be the main purpose and goal of your group: to have fun fighting the criminals. If you set your goal to make highsec safe, you are going to fail as that is not possible by the very design of the game, not to mention you will get disillusioned helping those that won’t help themselves.

[Xuxe_Xu]

@Black_Pedro

…but it is much better to try to teach them how to better play the game - the mechanics and how to be aware - than to try to play the game for them

Q.F.T!

[Ghost_O_Mo]

Where are you going to find criminals? I haven’t seen any around in ages.

They all quit already, I think.

You won. Can I start a slow clap?