Would you, the players who already play, start the game at its current state, and keep on?

Its like jumping in the pool without water when its dark, when You remember there was water when it was a day. :joy:

2 Likes

My ideal tutorial would be a “simulation” as the new player passes his “capsuleer training course”. The “simulation” would be run on a separate server with only a tiny section of real space (say, no more than 100 systems for each Empire with a mix of high, low and null, and maybe 10 or 20 WH sahred between all 4 empires). As it would replicate a training course, it could be full with teaching resources and dedicated moderation. Players would have access to free resources so they could tinker with everything ingame, but for no gain. No ISK would be earned and no SP but a modicum amount. Then once they thought that they were ready, they would enter Tranquility, but still would have access to the tutorial simulation for 30 days, non-consecutive: that is, could be spent 1 by 1 if the player wanted to experiment something new before comitting to it in TQ.

That would help new players to learn the game without fear of suffering for their mistakes, taste endgame before comititng to EVE, would filter “achievers” and having a way to simulate new endeavours before comitting possibly weeks or months to them would lower the cost of making a wrong choice or meeting the wrong people.

Then again, the question is, if thats the right thing for the players usally playing eve. Imo a newbie is “protected” anyways by having nothing really to loose, i mean, even if he actually gets a venture ganked, you got a bunch of them laying around after the career agents.

1 Like

The most important lesson to learn is … loss, and that it does not matter, that’s it is a part of the game and not a personal failure. The tutorial should make it so, that you have fun losing (cheap) things… how can one achieve that?

1 Like

Couldn’t they just use the test server for that? Most things cost 100 isk.

Splitting the community is not really great. Also, if you make things artifical cheap, it may feel like its different in the real game then.

As i said, i think people who stay in eve would probably prefer a “try to survive” kind of initial experience.

My guess is that a new player investing all his ISK in his first destroyer/cruiser and losing it would disagree of you…

Anyway, my point was that learning and making experiments and testing things with the game should not be punished. Players should get a chance to make themselves comfortable with the game before they’re punished. Specially because the game is in dire need of players who do other than PvP.

CCP has tried a NPE that has wasted the F2P spike in just 7 months. Not just PCU, but also new character creation is going down again. While PCU is sensitive to session length, new character creation isn’t. There’s less people starting up new characters, and that means less players.

10% retention is not enough. Specially whn half of that 10% will be gone in under 2 years, and EVE isn’t exaclty a best selling game with thousands waiting to join.

3 Likes

yeah ive been playing this game since 05, used to be a big fan of CCP when it was Gamers making a Game, and now they do things just to get you to pay them more and act more like a company telling their customers if they don’t like what they do to go screw themselves (which is why we now have the population we have no instead of almost 3 times what we used to have on peaks, and twice as much on normal play days)

If you looked at some of the things the company has done with just not eve you wouldn’t like them either.

there was a vampire MMO they were doing, scrapped that unknown reason

released dust 514 that connected to eveonline, had huge plans, scrapped it because “programming is hard” quoted by a dev

they have done other projects and quit, unknown what they were

used the f2p to inflate the numbers which still hasn’t helped the game much

and did a bunch of other things like choking on their foot that’s caught in their mouth.

so yeah

3 Likes

That’s what exactly happened to me back in 2010. Bought Myrmidon and even had no money to fit it properly. Lost it to some “help me to test my tank” Dodixie guys and bought new one just because standard insurance returned just enough money to buy it.

I still took it like it’s the game and continued.

2 Likes

Also ccp had statistics about that, and how many left.

Honestly, i think a newbie that quits because he lost his destroyer he spend his money in wont make it far in eve anyways. At some point hes afraid do undock at all, because it can get scrapped?

2 Likes

CCP has tried a NPE that has wasted the F2P spike in just 7 months. Not just PCU, but also new character creation is going down again. While PCU is sensitive to session length, new character creation isn’t. There’s less people starting up new characters, and that means less players.

10% retention is not enough. Specially whn half of that 10% will be gone in under 2 years, and EVE isn’t exaclty a best selling game with thousands waiting to join.

The NPE itself is good. I enjoyed it. The problem is that it doesnt feel like a NPE for EVE. The NPE treats you like a hero, you wreck NPC enemies, even drifters, you progress extremely fast (you solokill a capital ship ~30min after starting the game) and then you are thrown into the real EVE universe …

The real drifters 1-shot you, you cant even make a dent in their shield. You progress extremely slow, i.e. ~1 week training (=waiting) time to get the basic core and fitting skills for your frig, if you want to fly a cruiser properly you face several weeks of training time. PvE, that is ISK making, in the starting area (highsec) feels like a slave job. In PvP you face the infamous learning curve. You will get wrecked again and again by Omegas …

Then you see the ads. ISK making too slow? Pay 20$ for 500 PLEX and get 1,500,000,000 ISK. SO MUCH MONEY.
Training time too long? Pay 10$ (250 PLEX) for a skill injector and you can shorten it by 1 week.

The game looks a lot like P2W for new players.

Without all the newbie corps like E-Uni who teach newbies how the game really works we would have like 1% retention.

7 Likes

Those mistakes should get punished. Getting led down one path at the start and then being shown ‘this is what REALLY happens’ won’t do anything to make them stay.

Edit: mybad, replied to the wrong fella. I meant to reply to @Yiole_Gionglao

Exactly what was im trying to say.

I’ve been playing for a few days and I’m pretty sure I wont continue. I’m not gonna bash ccp or people who love this game.

But besides decade old repetitive pve content all I’ve observed is gangs of people camping stargates… There seems to be little else to do besides griefing & scamming.

Just my 2 cents. I’ve been playing mmos for 15 years and games that refuse to evolve: die

2 Likes

Well, games that tried to evolve died too.

But as i said, i can understand why youre feeling this. Just let me say this is not why we all like eve. Its just what a newbie experiences in the first time.

Try some things from https://english.eve-guides.fr/images/wtd.jpg this map here. Btw, you´re probably on the “Solo->Auto quit mode” way, or something.

Negative. I joined a corp my first day. Nice dudes… All 3 of them. The game feels small because it is small. The larger corps are only interested in pvp. Sure they’ll take you because a body is a body but joining a corp makes you an easy target for the other 50% of the server they’re at war with.

Eve can’t get new people because the game is not hospitable to new people. It’s 3 months until you have enough skill points to even defend yourself unless you spend a months rent on skill boosters.

3 Likes

Other games server share the people, so its not more. For the big alliances and pvp thing, there is renting. Just join a renting corp then.

its as hospitable as ever, imho. It just does not show you what you can do. and yeah, the wars is the fun part mostly. :slight_smile:

There are lots of alphas playing. CAS chat is at least 50% alphas and every time anyone puts up a fit that is for an alpha capable boat with non alpha modules, about 20 people jump on the bandwagon of pointing it out.

Whilst I do not think that this winter will necessarily hit last winters PCUs, using mid euro summer as your benchmark for eve is dying has been wrong about 17 years in a row.

Wars are only relevant in highsec space, this is not were most of the fun and the “real EvE” happens. If you want to live in highsec, stay in an NPC corp, or use an alt. Just this. A player corp in EvE has to have the ability to defend their members and assets; either with cleverness, ISK or fire power.

EvE is a PvP game, the PvE is boring because people like doing it for easy income not for fun. PvP in fleets (combat) and solo (not only combat, also market) is where EvE excels as a game.

im not talking about wars as in war declaration.

Im not comparing the numbers right now, but the trend since 2014. Also, you can compare summer with summer player counts.

Also im not saying eve is dying, im saying a lot of people seem to share the disappointment.