Just so you know for the future reference : gate guns and station guns exist also in low sec. Are you telling us that every low sec pirate that doesn’t lose his ship to gate/station guns is using exploits and hence should be banned?
Sentry and Station guns were designed to react to criminal acts, not security status. Since it be would irrelevant for CODE to try and gank freighters in Low Sec your comment is irrelevant.
DrysonBennington > I doubt he will follow me into low sec.
you had gateguns on your side and still died
how come? 
3 Likes
OMG he has even empty mid slots on his ship. Who does that? The amount of fail is just off the scale with this one. Good job Dom 
1 Like
You know nothing. Any unsanctioned aggression by station/gate guns will make them attack you. Just for reference - attacking someone’s ship w/o reason in ls makes you go suspect. That WILL trigger sentry guns. Just ask anyone who did some action at gate/station in ls.
Glad you went into such detail here, really explains things, and I realize now we have been thinking about this all wrong. I realize now that I have noticed that there are plenty of ships where bump tackle does not work at all, but scrambling does, and just ignored the issue. I am sure many others have noticed this lack of function as well, and frankly, CCP needs to fix this as clearly they are the same thing and thus should mechanically work as equals. There are so many mechanics in this game that follow this kind of parity between variations, it isn’t hard to fathom how this one was overlooked, but it is about time we bring this oversight to light so it can be addressed.
Also, do we have an update on @DrysonBennington Vs @Ima_Wreckyou?
I see @Dom_Arkaral got a piece with a side of gate agro, well done.
1 Like
The Ima vs Dryson battle already happened
The outcome was the same 
Bump tackling will work on any ship as long as the bumping ship is able to outmatch the bumped ships ability to align and then warp out.
A frigate can be bumped over and over again by numerous frigates to keep it from warping. The practice of Bump Warping smaller ships is very difficult, but not impossible. The larger the ship means that a larger ship with more velocity is require to simply bump the ship to keep it from warping out.
Bump tackling works on all ships. Whether the gankers put forth the effort to mass bump smaller ships is up to them.
So, they are not the same then.
@ISD_Fractal This is a duplicate suggestion to:
Both are calling for a 3 minute warp timer.
This is also in the wrong forum.
No it’s in the correct forum because the discussion involves warp scrambling modules as well as other modules used in PvP.
There is no mention of the 3 minute Warp Timer being discussed in the Balancing Hi-Sec thread.
Bump Tackling and Warp Scrambling are the same end result of keeping a ship from warping.
One mechanic, like I stated above, uses Kinetic energy to keep the freighter or target from warping. The other mechanic uses EMP pulses from a module to disrupt the warp drive of a ship.
The energy systems used to effect the warp drive of the targeted ship might be different but the end result is the same.
So why is it legal to deny a ship entry into warp using Kinetic energy which is a transfer of energy between the bump ship and the target that is no different than a Kinetic ammo round being used to attack a ship during a gank, but illegal to attack a ship in High Sec with a scrambler while not under a warp dec?
A Kinetic transfer of energy is a Kinetic transfer of energy regardless of whether it is shot from a blaster or is a ship bumping another ship at 3,000 meters a second.
Mechanic and End Result are different things.
2 Likes
The mechanic of hitting someone in the eye with a fist compared to the same person hitting their same eye on a doorknob that in both cases creates the end result of a black eye is what topic is about.
Your are trying to spin something that cannot be spun in your favor no matter how many combinations you try.
The end result is that the ship is tackled and unable to warp.
The same can be said of placing large containers in the path of a ship that is on auto-pilot with or without the Capsuleer being present that is used to disrupt the alignment of the ship after it has made its jump through the gate and is aligning to warp out.
In this case the static container is no different than the Bump Ship as both engage in mechanics of either keeping the ship from warping out such as Bump Tackling or Bump Stasis Webbing using the container that slows the velocity of the ship attempting to enter warp.
In both cases Bump Tackling or Bump Webbing end with the same results.
The ship is kept from entering warp or its velocity is slowed down prior to warping from artificial and outside source.
Both are criminal acts in High Sec when a Scrambler and or Webber is used against a non-FW or non-war dec target or non-NPC ship.
Therefore Bump Tackling and Bump Webbing using containers or immobile ships placed in the path of warping ship that have yet to align and warp out are both exploits.
This thread should probably be closed as discussing exploits is against the forum rules. @ISD_Fractal ?
2 Likes
Um, no, you clearly stated, mechanics… also, in this example, one is legal, the other is assault (in most places).
Additionally, they are different things entirely, one requires someone else… unless this is the person hitting themselves in the eye with their own fist (and then not assault, in most places)… then not. So, unless said person is maybe, falling to the floor, and hitting themselves in the eye with their own fist… or falling on a doorknob that just happens to be on said floor… they are different. The mechanic in this case would be “falling on something and hitting the eye region”, in this case the end result is similar… they receive a black eye. Replace doorknob with sharp object of choice… same mechanic… different result.
But it is treated differently, mechanically, this falls into the point I made that this is unevenly and… frankly… an unfairly balanced mechanic. Skewed strongly away from Bump tackle and placed firmly into the other.
I stated the mechanics were not equal, and that they should be made so because of observed behavior and result.
To expound on that, the number of valid combinations of “illegal action warp disruption” are quite staggering, as opposed to the options for the, at present, legal Bump Tackle. I can instruct, virtually anyone, on how to use a disruptor to prevent a freighter, or frigate, or battleship, from warping away. The same is not true for Bump tackle, and to a point you made, can take considerable effort that some are unwilling to undertake to receive… the same end result.
Along with that, there are a variety of ways to directly prevent warp disruption, there is no counterpart to this with Bumping, furthering my point that these are not equal. Provided the Bumping is even successful (it is not always so) you can have someone bump away the bumper, but that requires the aid of someone else. If the Bumping is not successful, you need do nothing. Where as against warp disruption you can fit stabs, ecm, prop mods that can get you free from the aggressor… with no outside help or in some cases actions on your part.
Yes, the result of “not in warp” is the same, but they are not equal.
Maybe read the OP before you respond?
You are trying to equate the two mechanics as being equal. No one said that the mechanics were equal the results are the same however. A Bump Tackle or Warp Scramble will keep the ship being bumped from entering warp for x amount of time based on the align time of the freighter.
Bumping a slow boating freighter is easy.
Bumping the ship that is Bump Tackling even with a ship built exactly the same as the Bump Tackler however is nearly impossible, a rare chance of bumping it, 25%, compared to the 100% bump rate of the experienced Bump Tackler.
Trying to avoid the issue by saying that the experience of the Bump Tackler is the determining factor is irrelevant. Why would you use a Bump Tackler that hasn’t been trained to Bump Tackle the ship 100%?
Even if the Bump Tackler misses 50% of their bumps the remaining Bump Tackle attempts are more than enough to Bump Tackle the freighter or target in question.
Even if the Bump Tackler bumps the freighter just 1 time that is more than enough time for the gankers to warp too the Bump Ship and then gank the freighter or other target.
If gankers are able to warp to a Bump Ship after it has completed its bump while aligning then what is the problem with warping to a Bump Ship that is parallel to the gank target and then gank it while it is still in the process of warping out?
The reasons are two fold:
- Keep the ship from entering warp and escaping without creating a criminal flag.
- Bump the ship off of the gate or station gun sentries grid to avoid taking extra damage due to a criminal act taking place, of which the sentry guns are designed for. To react to criminal acts that same that CONCORD does.
RAWL, making up new phrases to support a false reality, big lol!
Do you think we are dumb, you want to falsely equate bumping with tackling to support the idea that bumping should have consequences.
1 Like
Maybe mind yourself.