Is that true, my understanding was that only the jet can miner could shoot him, not his corp mates. I was told by many people that they ended up sitting there unable to help their corp mate. So I never jet can mined as I just warped to the station dropped it off and warped back again.
It would be fine if it was corp mates and fleet mates.
i think you could select iirc.
Corpmates from a player corp, individuals from npc corps.
The thing is, of course, that new players aren’t usually sitting in player corps.
I’m pretty sure, but it’s been many years and I wasn’t really an active canflipper.
Better ask @Ghost_O_Mo to be sure, I guess.
I vaguely remember the jetcan stuff since that was back in 2012. But EVE was so much more social then.
Good times.
The problem was you could set up a chain then steal from them that resulted in some guy 5 steps.down the chain now being able to shoot the miner defending his can.
It was unintuitive, and you had no idea of the consequences of who was suddenly.going to be able to shoot you. This was terrible game play as a result, and part of why the blanket rule taught to people was to just never jet can mine because can flipping was always bait. It wasn’t the suspect mechanic that killed baiting, it was boaters themselves ending up natural selecting their targets so that nearly everyone learnt.
I think you and i have a different view on what intuitive is, personally id venture to say I’m not the brightest spark in the box; if i ‘got it’ i don’t see why others did not.
That was easy, if you took from a yellow can you could get shot at; literally as easy as that.
Over basically what we have now which is no gameplay at all?
Im sorry i cant agree with you, even the newbros in our corp at the time understood can mechanics, and they weren’t really that difficult to get ones head around.
I think “in our Corp” is a key element here. Difficult or complicated things become much easier when you have friendly experts to explain what’s going on and how to deal with it.
The issue, now and back then, is new players leaving (or getting discouraged) before they got connected with other players.
Without someone to explain, there’s just too much unintuitive stuff happening in EVE. Most of it is documented on EveWiki, but solo new players get “information overload” very fast in EVE. And nobody is immune to “info overload”.
One of the most important things a friendly expert (in anything that’s worth doing) does is select what’s relevant. “Learn this first, do this now, don’t do that yet” is at least as useful as describing complicated processes, because it excludes every other topic, and thereby protects from “info overload”.
Maybe, but CCP’s recent approach to these things isnt to balance it, its to edit the whole thing out; which leaves less content for newbros anyway (boring monotonous gameplay)
I’m so happy I’m one of those rare breeds who go …
“oooohhhh what does this button do??? :D”
*presses button*
*explodes hilariously*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA 
People are so dumb nowadays, it’s boring. 
I have a memory of someone saying that they had to watch their corp mate die to a can flipper. I remember reading in C&P people saying that it was hilarious that their corp mates had to watch them die.
And I realised from reading C&P and from my corp mates that I should not jet can mine.
Solecist
Thanks for the information on Can Flipping - very interesting. I was definitely caught that way once (back in 2009/2010 I think).
A beginner’s perspective:
For me it would have been one more “straw on the camel’s back”. A minor factor in the “stay or leave” decision, but still a factor.
In a perfect game, that kind of thing should be simple, consistent, and easy to learn. Or avoidable. Games aren’t perfect of course, and no gamer expects them to be - but I think stuff like this, which will affect every (solo) new player’s perception of the game, still matter.s
You’re welcome.
Well, that’s too bad. If you don’t know the game you’re playing, then it’s probably better you’re leaving. It’s really hard not to know what EVE ONLINE is all about. Considering that it always had the reputation of a “griefer’s game” no one really deserves any sympathy.
You’re way too much in theory land, btw, and you’re absolutely not respecting Darwin enough. Darwinism is what made this game grow. Darwinism is what made sure that those who aren’t cut out for it will leave, while the top of the cream stayed. That worked for over a decade until CCP decided to drop a nuke onto us.
The amount of self entitled morons nowadays has never been higher and the game has never been more boring than it is today. Looking at the real world today I dare saying that a Darwinism needs a comeback, because everyone’s suffering from the lack of it.
This is the “old school” EVE attitude: “iIf someone takes an unlucky early path, or doesn’t meet the right people, and gives up, it’s their own fault”. But it’s just victim-blaming.
There are definitely (100%) some people who lose interest in EVE, but would stay long term if their early experience was better. How many I can’t say of course (impossible to gather statistically useful data), but that group certainly includes one person (me).
You have to wonder: would it be possible to double the retention rate by shielding beginners for a while so they get a chance to learn the basics. And/or make it easy instead of difficult to find people to play with? Or multiply it by ten?
but never once did it occur to get a logi ship?
back then we didnt have safety settings either though 
I think shielding them from players as capable as me is a good idea, but certainly not from each other. (at least not so much)
It’s not UNLUCKY. How about you stop ignoring self responsibility? You declare EVERYONE a victim by default, which is a horrible thing to do!
What I am doing it not VICTIM BLAMING, what I am doing is acknowledging the fact that there are many people who are, in no way or form, meant to be here! What kind of asshole are you for turning everyone into a victim by default, ignoring that people aren’t equal at all and that those, who suck, need to learn not to suck or it’s too bad!
Self responsibility!
You’re a horrible person!
Lug … it’s NOT a safety setting!
Look at what it does and ignore the ■■■■■■■■ around it!
The protection button is nothing but that, a button that protects the player from making mistakes, which are the best way for learning new things, and also attempts shielding them from doing shenanigans that require them to change the setting of the button!
“Okay, default is on green and it warns me from yellow and red. Better not do that before I’m ready / better not do that, apparently it’s not allowed / better not do that, it’s probably a bad idea!”
… and you know what happens when someone thinks “he’s not ready yet”? He’ll NEVER be ready, because people for some stupid reason always believe they’re not ready yet, instead of just going for it and exploring something that might actually interest them!
I suppose thats why so few get into solo pvp despite ‘‘wanting’’ too.
I agree. I think a mini-game that’s too unlike the main game just leads to people needing to “unlearn” bad habits later.
IMO an otherwise game-consistent environment that makes every participant approximately equally competitive works much better. And, in the case of EVE, it would probably be a lot cheaper for CCP too.