A new 3D Maze site for PvP, PvE, or Exploration

[Nujenif_Talvanen]

Using Large Collidable Objects and damaging Gas Clouds , a simple deadspace pocket, accessed through an Acceleration Gate, provides the setting to a whole host of possible content.

Passageways would wind through the structure, which is procedurally generated each iteration. If a ship tries to break through walls or fly around the maze, they will either hit the collideables and be unable to proceed, die to the gas, or both. The gas should have a decently-sized low-damage section (20 dps or so) and a really small massive damage section, say 2000 DPS or more. This means that even Marauders in the maze will be really punished by trying to go through walls.

It doesn’t need to be that large, with passageways a few kilometers wide, walls dividing spaces, and an effective 6x6x6 cube to explore (for example). In certain sections or at random intervals, scramming effects could be applied to ships to make it more important to time warpouts (and complicate aligning) or harder to use MJDs to cheese the maze.

A thick haze can applied to make it harder to scout with the camera. All players, enemies, and the final Acceleration Gate that takes you out of the maze to a possible “loot room” are visible at all times, because that’s how EVE works.

Inertia clouds could exist that apply either positive or negative inertia value modifiers, making it easier or harder to stop or turn. Speed clouds might be a bit overdoing it.

In PVE scanarios, little pockets of enemies would fire at you throughout the structure, and since weapons can pass through solid objects in EVE, only guns would be viable, since Drones and Missiles would die to the gas. In addition, the presence of the walls would make it much harder to keep up transversal, increasing the danger of the sites greatly. Sentry drones could really shine here. There could be Frigate, Cruiser, and Battleship sites. Players can enter to attack you if you are unprepared, especially in the more valuable Low and Nullsec sites.

In PVP, the acceleration gate could apply a Suspect Timer to those entering. Big ships with long range guns could be effective here, if they get a good head start in the maze, but if they are caught early it could easily be game over. It would be cool to scatter Data (or Relic) analyzing canisters throughout the pockets, giving decent loot (like Polarized blueprints, Rig blueprints, Ancillary stuff blueprints, etc. as rare drops, and giving standard regional can loot otherwise). This could force midslot sacrifice on ships in the site, making it slightly easier for any attackers.

In exploration, the maze is a little larger with spacious passageways and cans placed at dead ends. This site prioritizes speed and cargo scanning in order to make it out before diamond rats and one or two standard rats warp to the site after a decent timer that should allow you to just get every can if you are really skilled/lucky.

What does y’all thinks?

[Dyver_Phycad]

Sounds very interesting and novel. You could use the abyss system layout mechanics to achieve that. A real Maze like experience was something I had in mind for the Guristas 10/10 for a long time. It’s aptly called Maze, but isn’t really one because the gates through the rooms never change. What I had in mind for this was a reduction of the number of gates, but the good gates which get you to the final room would change with each Maze.

Depending on how complex you want to make your idea of the maze, you could even give people a mapping feature so that they can chart their way through the maze and mark dead-ends or danger spots. Sort of like putting chalk marks on walls or bread crumbs on the floor in real mazes.

[Nujenif_Talvanen]

My main goals were to a) introduce a system where a third dimension is very required, and the up/down direction manual piloting and q-clicking are not only helpful, but necessary and b) introduce a challenging and varied PvE activity that can have different strategies for different arrangements. I like the marking system, maybe you do it with temporary bookmarks or jetcans. As for a revamp to the existing “Maze” Guristas 10/10, that could very well be a cheap fix, but I kinda wanted the rewards and challenges to be applicable for a good variation of players.

[Ariel_Kryten]

And the lore reason? We don’t add things just to be adding them. Who built these giant death traps? And for what purpose?

[Nujenif_Talvanen]

Hmm… that’s a good question. It would be especially hard to answer if it includes multiple factions…

Both the “naturally generated structure that is later found” and the “built to torment empire explorers” paths are a bit weak.

[Rail_J_kar]

@Ariel_Kryten

And the lore reason? We don’t add things just to be adding them. Who built these giant death traps? And for what purpose?

There are a bunch of old factions in EVE that no longer exist. Any number of them could have created maze like structures like this. Also… rogue drones exist, who knows what their reasoning could be for doing what they do (maybe they just want to study players to update their algorithms.)

One thing I recommend, would be to have Aura warn the player about the dangers of the site on warp in. Would be pretty lame to fly into the gas unknowingly and have your ship blow up. Maybe allow her dialogue to be disabled for future maze sites, if the player desires, via a check box in her dialogue window.

You could probably add some of the features I mention in this post to your maze. Cloaking, jamming, obscuring, resource, and anti-warp clouds in conjunction with your 2k dps dot clouds.

If you really want to spice things up you could add a fob to the center of the maze, which would effectively turn it into a raid.

Also, among all the hacking loot boxes, CCP could make use of my derelict idea to make the exploration more varied.

As for navigation, it might be useful to update the autopilot system, to allow the player to create waypoints in space (without first needing to make bookmarks) and share that route with fleet members or anyone else through a chat link. This way, a scout could go in, create a path, and then share it with the fleet.

Also, if you make use of the tech from my Lessons from Homeworld post, you can randomize the sites so you’ll never be running into the same maze twice.

[Rail_J_kar]

I’ll drop this here for reference as well…

Star Totek - controllers, collectors and lots of moving

[Nujenif_Talvanen]

@Rail_J_kar

maybe they just want to study players to update their algorithms

I really like this! Very clever!

@Rail_J_kar

have Aura warn the player about the dangers of the site on warp in

Of course, kind of like those messages in the combat anomalies or exploration sites currently in the game. It doesn’t even have to be Aura!

@Rail_J_kar

Would be pretty lame to fly into the gas unknowingly and have your ship blow up.

Yep.

@Rail_J_kar

this post

Pretty nice, I like the permanent feature of the system idea, though this would not apply here. Very sad to see a post with no replies.

@Rail_J_kar

Cloaking, jamming, obscuring, resource, and anti-warp clouds in conjunction with your 2k dps dot clouds.

aaaaaaa please not that much stuff, I don’t want this to become a super cancerous version of Eternal Starlight.

@Rail_J_kar

add a fob

Well that would certainly be different. No drones allowed for a FOB would really change things up, but max-tier sites are not what I had in mind here. Maybe an advanced version could incorporate this?

@Rail_J_kar

my derelict idea

This is an interesting idea, but I don’t see how bigger ships would leave more derelict wrecks. Also, I think the percentage of any spillover health bar destroyed should correspond to different types of explosion animations and wreck models, just not different wreck types. For example, a doomsday shot should leave a gaping, burning hole in a ship that quickly consumes the vessel, with a huge explosion shattering the hull into tons of tiny pieces. A bunch of drones whittling away at the ship would leave it burning to a crisp with small explosions, before decaying into its burned out and sans reactor core wreck, still very recognizable. Specific wreck types inside of certain sites, however, is not economical from a development standpoint. This would require a complete overhaul of the current wreck system, which is a very tall order.

@Rail_J_kar

allow the player to create waypoints in space (without first needing to make bookmarks) and share that route with fleet members or anyone else through a chat link

Very interesting, but I think that would be a bit of a spoonfeed. Verbal or typed directions should be key to a successful fleet operation.

@Rail_J_kar

my Lessons from Homeworld post, you can randomize the sites so you’ll never be running into the same maze twice

I think that post is outside the scope of these structures, but procedural generation is the way to go, with a high degree of site uniqueness, or at least enough variability so it would be pretty much impossible to know which way to go without exploring on your own.

@Rail_J_kar

’ll drop this here for reference as well…

Yes, this. Except in three dimensions, and also where did you get that sweet Drifter Response Battleship?

[Rail_J_kar]

@Nujenif_Talvanen

@Rail_J_kar

have Aura warn the player about the dangers of the site on warp in

Of course, kind of like those messages in the combat anomalies or exploration sites currently in the game. It doesn’t even have to be Aura!

I actually hate those messages. They’re in a window that’s not resizable so it forces a scroll bar with the wall of text that doesn’t have anything besides lore information. So I generally ignore them.

As I mentioned in the home world topic, immersion is key for keeping people engaged. So having Aura verbally warn the player of the possible danger is necessary.

@Nujenif_Talvanen

@Rail_J_kar

add a fob

max-tier sites are not what I had in mind here. Maybe an advanced version could incorporate this?

That’s the beauty of randomization. You can set thresholds of what is available at different tiers. All current anoms are listed with levels, and your idea wouldn’t have to be any different.

@Nujenif_Talvanen

@Rail_J_kar

my derelict idea

This would require a complete overhaul of the current wreck system, which is a very tall order.

As I mention in the comments section of that post, all the derelict is (in terms of back end code,) is a wreck with the hacking mechanic attached to it (reskinned for use with cargohold objects - like marines.) How they come into being in that other post wouldn’t really have any relevance for our current topic, since the derelicts would just spawn as site assets.

@Nujenif_Talvanen

@Rail_J_kar

allow the player to create waypoints in space (without first needing to make bookmarks) and share that route with fleet members or anyone else through a chat link

Very interesting, but I think that would be a bit of a spoonfeed. Verbal or typed directions should be key to a successful fleet operation.

Possibly. After I posted this I actually thought of another issue with it. Allowing players to create bookmarks / or waypoints without physically being there, would allow people to travel much more safely. Which might be against CCP’s intent.

@Nujenif_Talvanen

@Rail_J_kar

’ll drop this here for reference as well…

Yes, this. Except in three dimensions,

yup

@Nujenif_Talvanen

where did you get that sweet Drifter Response Battleship?

I’m not sure what you’re referring to.

[Nujenif_Talvanen]

@Rail_J_kar

Aura verbally warn

A lot of people have this voice disabled in settings, so at least an accompanying pop-up will be needed. I do see your point though, and aural interaction is a really interesting gameplay expansion idea.

@Rail_J_kar

set thresholds

Yes, but I think FOBs are a bit too far. Those are like the top of the top of PvE sites, and building your FOB in a deadly maze would not make much sense from a lore perspective.

@Rail_J_kar

hacking mechanic attached to it

I think this just overcomplecates things and makes it harder for new players to gain their first hundred million isk running around space scavenging from abandoned battlefields. I once picked up a Damage Dontrol II from a Jackdaw wreck on a gate, among other things, and I literally freaked out. 12 million ISK was absolutely huge for me. I then lost all of that loot hauling it back to highsec by gating it through nullsec, in a Tayra. At least the Tayra was well-fitted, with five shield boostes and four armor repairers.

@Rail_J_kar

Allowing players to create bookmarks / or waypoints without physically being there, would allow people to travel much more safely. Which might be against CCP’s intent.

Definitely a bad thing. Risk is what makes this game fun.

Your Battlecruiser in that game looks liek a Drifter Response Battleship.

[Rail_J_kar]

@Nujenif_Talvanen

A lot of people have this voice disabled in settings,

I wasn’t aware of that, but it shouldn’t impact the majority of players. People might actually find her voice useful if she says relevant things.

@Nujenif_Talvanen

so at least an accompanying pop-up will be needed

That was my intent. Have the popup text, and have an ai program (keyed to aura’s voice) read the text.

@Nujenif_Talvanen

Yes, but I think FOBs are a bit too far. Those are like the top of the top of PvE sites,

And the fob would be for the top end up the maze. the Level 4 or 5 version of it.

@Nujenif_Talvanen

building your FOB in a deadly maze would not make much sense from a lore perspective.

We already mentioned the maze would likely make the most sense if it were developed by rogue drones or some automated process from an ancient civ. Both those situations could make use of the fob mechanic.

@Nujenif_Talvanen

@Rail_J_kar

hacking mechanic attached to it

I think this just overcomplecates things and makes it harder for new players to gain their first hundred million isk running

It really doesn’t. You literally only need to have some marines in your cargo hold and drop them into the derelict. You wouldn’t even need to have any relevant skills associated with the mechanic or specific modules fit to your ship.

As for teaching players about it? It seems like a great attrition to the tutorial to me. They want to make the experience more character driven anyway.

@Nujenif_Talvanen

Your Battlecruiser in that game looks liek a Drifter Response Battleship.

Oh, you’re asking what the video is from. It’s a game called Homeworld Mobile. I believe it’s only available in Europe. Or maybe just select parts of Europe.

[Rail_J_kar]

Also… speaking of fobs… there’s no reason the game mechanic couldn’t be scaled down to be more accessible for new players. Something that is more inline with a level 1 mission, but designed around party play.

[Nujenif_Talvanen]

@Rail_J_kar

People might actually find her voice useful

It’s for performance reasons, usually, at least that’s what I’ve heard…

@Rail_J_kar

ai program

Wouldn’t need to be AI, just a program with an audio file resource.

@Rail_J_kar

if it were developed by rogue drones or some automated process from an ancient civ

eh, I don’t really like it, but lore is for the development team to figure out… gameplay always comes first, because it’s a game, not a movie.

@Rail_J_kar

You literally only need to have some marines in your cargo hold and drop them into the derelict.

I disagree, but this is not about the Derelict, so let’s move on.

@Rail_J_kar

you’re asking what the video is from

No, but I was liking the ship model.

@Rail_J_kar

inline with a level 1 mission, but designed around party play

How tf would you make something designed for multiple beginners that wouldn’t just be done super easily by, say, a well-fit cruiser?

[Rail_J_kar]

@Nujenif_Talvanen

@Rail_J_kar

ai program

Wouldn’t need to be AI, just a program with an audio file resource.

That’s what is referred to as ai voice over. It might not technically be ai, but it’s the common phrasing.

@Nujenif_Talvanen

@Rail_J_kar

inline with a level 1 mission, but designed around party play

How tf would you make something designed for multiple beginners that wouldn’t just be done super easily by, say, a well-fit cruiser?

Separate objectives that need to be completed simultaneously. (You could use the capture the flag mechanic from fw battlefields.)

Alternatively (or in tandem,) you can borrow the reward system from the multiplayer pve content CCP has already developed. Everyone in the site, up to a certain number of players, gets the same payout. Just make the rewards appropriate for new players (ie: level 1 missions) and then more veteran players will look elsewhere

[Nujenif_Talvanen]

Either way, this maze would not be suitable for FOBs, because don’t the rats also take damage from clouds, and there is (of course) no pathfinding program for these rats?

[Rail_J_kar]

in the missions I’ve run that have dot clouds, the rats didn’t take damage. That’s an easy thing to change in the code for the site if they did normally take damage though. So it’s more or less a non-issue.

@Nujenif_Talvanen

In PVE scanarios, little pockets of enemies would fire at you throughout the structure, and since weapons can pass through solid objects in EVE, only guns would be viable, since Drones and Missiles would die to the gas

In your OP, it looked like you already took that into account anyway (the npcs being immune to the gas.)

[Nujenif_Talvanen]

Yeah good point, I forgot about that.

[Yla_Trild]

Anomic Base (Serpentis) comes to mind, where you land inside a grid of 180 proximity turrets. Could randomize the layout a bit or throw in some extra obstacles or time pressure to challenge your manual piloting skills.

[Nujenif_Talvanen]

I have never heard of this mission before. Add a few long-range webbing towers and you have the idea.