A Small Action to Change a Lot

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Ima_Wreckyou

So far I have not seen a valid reason why this scanner should be changed at all. They have various uses, piracy is the just the obvious one but also a very valid one.

Its an invasive one in HS.
Suspect timer is arguably warranted.

[Whitehound]

@Dracvlad

I like the idea of the cans very much it seems to work well with BR’s, but I would not make a cargo scanner or ship scanner go suspect.

Blockade Runners are special. Not only can these not be scanned, but you can also fit a covert ops cloak to it. I use them and when I haul stuff of value through high-sec with it do I cloak. I don’t leave it to chance, because Blockade Runners do get ganked, too. But because they can cloak do gankers know that an uncloaked BR, scannable or not, is likely not much of value.

You can try to bluff, but as you know can bluffs be called and gankers do this on occasions.

[Uriel_the_Flame]

Agreed, I’ve expressed this in my very first post as well.

@Uriel_the_Flame

Edit: Checked the OP and apparently he mentioned freighters as well at a later part of his wall of text. The answer is simple, it is part of the game. The risk is already there with the loot fairy, with whether the gank actually succeeds or not and so on. Getting intel on your opponent is an option of the game decided by CCP. Beyond that it is mere opinion whether someone likes it being part of the game or not so pointless to argue with that.

In my opinion it is a good addition as without it gankers would face too much of risk their gank not being profitable. The risk vs reward is balanced now as is but without the cargo scanner it would be off balance and we would see less splosions in hisec which would be a loss. I know freighter pilots will not agree but their view is biased for obvious reason.

Of course just as stated this is an opinion, just as whatever anyone else would bring up is just that so in the end comes to personal preference and in the end what CCP decides is healthy for the game.

Though that does not stop me from still participating in the discussion with ideas even though I don’t necessarily support the concept itself I still can offer solutions or ways to make them more feasible.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Whitehound

You can try to bluff, but as you know can bluffs be called and gankers do this on occasions.

You can double wrap cargo to the same effect.
The BR scanning resistance is largely arbitrary, and more often than not just makes pirates curious to pop you to find whats in there.

[Solstice_Projekt]

*sips water*

Amazing.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

If cargo/fit scanning causes a suspect flag in HS, it means players can react/aggress.
Not just the target of the scan, but others nearby.

I would enjoy shooting some scan alts to alleviate the tedium of transiting through HS.

[Solstice_Projekt]

It would also limit people to scanning once every 15 minutes, putting a serious dent into the income of some.

But hey … keep on keeping on. : )
You freaks are way better than TV. : D

Why does it replace “^ _ ^” with that smiley face … *sigh*

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Solstice_Projekt

You freaks are way better than TV. : D

If content is not entertaining, it aint worth doing.

[Solstice_Projekt]

Well … with a broad enough definition of “entertaining” I would likely agree. : - )

[Dracvlad]

@Whitehound

Blockade Runners are special. Not only can these not be scanned, but you can also fit a covert ops cloak to it. I use them and when I haul stuff of value through high-sec with it do I cloak. I don’t leave it to chance, because Blockade Runners do get ganked, too. But because they can cloak do gankers know that an uncloaked BR, scannable or not, is likely not much of value.

You can try to bluff, but as you know can bluffs be called and gankers do this on occasions.

I rather hated it at first because I found moving my BR around a bloody great chore just because someone would take a pop at me even when empty, but I adjusted my approach to cater for the vulnerability points which is of course undocking from certain stations and jumping into very congested gates.

@Uriel_the_Flame

The risk vs reward is balanced now as is but without the cargo scanner it would be off balance and we would see less splosions in hisec which would be a loss. I know freighter pilots will not agree but their view is biased for obvious reason.

The risk / reward is not balanced at this point imo, you have a different opinion on that so I agree to differ.

[Uriel_the_Flame]

@Dracvlad

The risk / reward is not balanced at this point imo, you have a different opinion on that so I agree to differ.

In my other post I mention that if risk vs reward is to be balanced better I suggest:

@Uriel_the_Flame

Of anything what you say rather should indicate ship scanners to be removed (to keep the enemy ship fit a mystery) while keeping the cargo scanners in to allow people to determine the value of the target seems reasonable.

Note I am talking about ganking or in general PvP here and not exploration sites. For those I think the solution I’ve suggested is the proper solution instead so people could not cherry pick the good rewards.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

1. Scanning someones fit/cargo in HS is obviously a precursor to impending aggression. Its also invasive of a capsuleers privacy/integrity. It is valid to argue this should cause a suspect flag. Its not dissimmilar to someone walking along a street and looking into peoples car windows looking for valuables to steal. Obviously this arouses suspicion and someone will call the cops on you. This can easily be mediated on the part of gankers by flying cheaper scan ships.

2. Ive done a lot of exploring, and use a can scanner to cherry-pick. But I feel dirty doing it. Im perfectly fine, even against my own convenience, that data/relic cans are unscannable. I deliberately leave sites unfinished with the crap cans, so as to confuse hunters and delay other explorers.

3. Non-HS scanning of cargo/fit would remain unaffected, as is fitting of the wider margins for PvP in those sectors.

[Dracvlad]

@Uriel_the_Flame

Of anything what you say rather should indicate ship scanners to be removed (to keep the enemy ship fit a mystery) while keeping the cargo scanners in to allow people to determine the value of the target seems reasonable.

Ship scanners have a very valuable role in fleet fights, I have FC’d using them, they also detail the cap on the enemy ship. The fitting options of a freighter are pretty limited, so what the gankers would do is setup to hit based on triple bulkheads, or work it back from the cargo scanner.

@Ima_Wreckyou is obviously right in that it will cost more and they will end up ganking at a loss at times. I like the idea of conditioning my enemy and that is why it appeals to me and I would actually jump into a normal freighter now with these cans. Whereas now I don’t bother.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Dracvlad

@Ima_Wreckyou is obviously right in that it will cost more and they will end up ganking at a loss at times.

Arguably, a suspect timer on fit/cargo scanning in HS will INCREASE incident of HS ganking, as they cant cherry-pick targets as easily and have to rely on quantity of ganks, rather than quality.

[Uriel_the_Flame]

Okay but no need to take every post literally. Other options (even brought up for the cargo scanner) could be applied or other solutions suggested.

Like ship scanning would result in a suspect flag (instead of entirely removing the ship scanner) so that way out of hi-sec operations are unaffected (and in case of wardecs it is legal to use obviously just like using brute force as well so no suspect flag that case). Or some other solution.

So instead of insta-rejecting a concept let’s try if somehow it can be altered to fit? This is what I do as well even if I do not agree with a premise I still try to suggest alterations that could improve the concept.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

@Dracvlad

I like the idea of conditioning my enemy by crying to CCP so they change the game mechanics in a way that makes their gameplay less profitable because I really suck coming up with a good counter in-game by myself.

Fixed your post

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Uriel_the_Flame

Like ship scanning would result in a suspect flag (instead of entirely removing the ship scanner) so that way out of hi-sec operations are unaffected (and in case of wardecs it is legal to use obviously just like using brute force as well so no suspect flag that case).

This, you are on the right track.

[Dracvlad]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Arguably, a suspect timer on fit/cargo scanning in HS will INCREASE incident of HS ganking, as they cant cherry-pick targets as easily and have to rely on quantity of ganks, rather than quality.

I think you are right, they will still ship / cargo scan as they are adaptable players and it is quite easy to warp out and they have multiple accounts. Hold on, in terms of that adaptable part, at least they tell me that they are, though that bumping thread did sort of indicate otherwise…

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Dracvlad

@Salvos_Rhoska

Arguably, a suspect timer on fit/cargo scanning in HS will INCREASE incident of HS ganking, as they cant cherry-pick targets as easily and have to rely on quantity of ganks, rather than quality.

I think you are right, they will still ship / cargo scan as they are adaptable players and it is quite easy to warp out and they have multiple accounts. Hold on, in terms of that adaptable part, at least they tell me that they are, though that bumping thread did sort of indicate otherwise…

Most HS traffic completely ignore a yellow suspect, much less aggress it.
They just want to get from A–>B, with as little complications as possible.

[Dracvlad]

@Uriel_the_Flame

Okay but no need to take every post literally. Other options (even brought up for the cargo scanner) could be applied or other solutions suggested.

Changing things does affect in other areas, the use of ship scanners is one that I needed to point out as you suggested removing them.

@Uriel_the_Flame

Like ship scanning would result in a suspect flag (instead of entirely removing the ship scanner) so that way out of hi-sec operations are unaffected (and in case of wardecs it is legal to use obviously just like using brute force as well so no suspect flag that case). Or some other solution.

Is better.

@Uriel_the_Flame

So instead of insta-rejecting a concept let’s try if somehow it can be altered to fit? This is what I do as well even if I do not agree with a premise I still try to suggest alterations that could improve the concept.

I did not instra reject, I gave you a reason why removing them was not a good idea.