Abyssal Deadspace now live on Singularity for testing

(Arthur Aihaken) #836

I don’t see how they can address all of the shortcomings in less than a week, no.

(erg cz) #837

I do :wink:
Here : is my easy fix suggestion.. No hardcore rebalancing needed.

(Arthur Aihaken) #838

Never going to happen in less than a week. What’s most likely is that they’ll release it as is, wait for the inevitable outcry and then nerf the difficulty after a few weeks.

(erg cz) #839

Why? Not much work adjusting loot table and making timers twice as long in some tiers, IMHO.

(Arthur Aihaken) #840

Why? Because there have been numerous great suggestions made by players over the past few weeks and the only change that was adopted was nerfing Mutaplasmids due to the massive outcry on Reddit. The fact that noise and chatter has more of an impact on Reddit than on the Official Forums speaks volumes.

(Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance) #841


I put all my feedback on over here Dev blog: Abyssal Deadspace - What Lies Beyond The Filament

Good luck with it all o7

(Brian Kith) #842

So I tried a Muninn last night in some L2’s . . . with some results that surprised me.

I was running an AC fit (complete fit below) and let me just say it was utterly amazing against cruisers and BS. It was faster than the Triglavian cruisers, which was all the advantage I needed. I simply ran directly at them, forcing them to turn and run (in an attempt to keep range on me) and then matched speed once I had them running. Basically zero angular velocity and dead in my optimal range. Yes, they could hit me, but nothing like I could hit them.

On the other hand, I was completely undone by frigates. Web didn’t help nearly enough. If it was just one or two frigates, ok, I could work that out. My inconsistent DPS plus my 5 drones could deal with a couple frigates. Once there were more than one or two, they would blap a drone or two before I could recall and once the drones were dead I couldn’t replace them, my applied DPS went down too much and I lost on time.

I can build a ship to deal with any of the encounters. I just can’t seem to build a ship to deal with ALL the encounters.

All the above said, I still think that risking a 400m ISK ship for a 50/50 chance at T2 rewards is not something I would ever do on TQ.

Muninn Fit

[Muninn, Abyssal Fit?]

Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Stasis Webifier II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 400
Large Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery

425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M
425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M
425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M
425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M
425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M

Medium Nanobot Accelerator II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

Warrior II x5

(Fluffy Moe) #843

Looks that way :frowning: at least for the lvl 3,4 and 5 filaments. 1 and 2 are OK.

(erg cz) #844

[Muninn, Armor dual web ]

Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Stasis Webifier II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Stasis Webifier II

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Warrior II x5

Dual web and proper ammunition can really help against frigates. Hail has 2/3 of rep. fleet munition tracking. And that fit is cap stable, unlike yours

(My Cat Meows) #845

The idea of the highest difficulity level of new content being (almost) impossible is kinda sexy tho, the select few figuring it out will get super space rich. :smiley: There’s always a different point of view. Also this is not what MMOs usually do, so… let’s see :slight_smile:

(Dark Engraver) #846

These 2 fits used to work quite well until the rats got messed up the cerberus required counting your missiles per volley and knowing how many to shoot on a drone frigate or a seeker and so on.

Also the cerb against vedmak cruiser rush was a good way to headshot 2 vedmaks before their rr was activated then you reloaded and tanked with asb and could headshot another 2 and win frigs wouldnt finish you.

The vaga lost to the neuting against vedmak rush and the cerb lost to ehp/rr grind on stuff like battleships now depending on number of harrowing vedmaks you kill 1 out of 3 then maybe a 2nd after reload and third kills you.

(Alderson Point) #847

There is a solid reason why Other games do not do this.

As we have all been finding out.

(Arthur Aihaken) #848

@Alderson_Point Yes, but maybe this time will be the charm. Right? :rofl:

(Brian Kith) #849

My observation is that there are, in general, four factors that determine whether an activity or content in any given game is popular or not. Abyssal content needs to answer to these factors for players.

  1. Fun - Is the content enjoyable / challenging / engaging?
  2. Risk - What do I put on the line in order to participate?
  3. Reward - What do I get in return for my participation?
  4. Time - Do I have the time required for this activity?

Generally, gamers think of these things as two ratios . . . Fun to Time and Risk to Reward.

For Abyssal content, so far, I think Fun to Time is going in the right direction. Leaving off the factors of Risk and Reward the Abyssal content is fun and the time investment is very palatable for nearly every gamer. That’s good. It means the developers are on the right path. Unfortunately, this same ratio was in great shape for Resource Wars as well.

Where Resource Wars failed, and where Abyssal Deadspace is currently failing, is in the Risk to Reward ratio (or more accurately, Reward to Risk). For Resource Wars, the Reward side was so slanted against the content despite the nearly zero risk that the content failed. Water under the bridge.

Abyssal Deadspace has a very, very real risk associated. We’re seeing 400 million ISK ships getting whelped by the content in the middle of the difficulty scale. Just for the sake of argument, let’s say that 400 million ISK fits have a 50 / 50 chance of completing a T3 filament. In order for the average player to think “Yea, that seems alright to me” they have to look at the reward and see 400 million ISK from each filament.

“Wait! That’s too much!”

No, it’s not. That’s breaking even. That’s the Reward vs Risk being balanced. You can lower the reward, sure, but in doing so, you must also lower the risk. If, for instance, your success ratio was 3:1 (3 success for every 1 failure), then you could set a reward level around 130 million ISK. That would break even. Average player, average filament.

TL; DR - Abyssal content seems fun, but the rewards aren’t nearly worth the risk.

(Arthur Aihaken) #850

CCP seems to think players will rush home at lunch to lose a 400m ship, lol. There’s a lot of theory-crafting and preparation for these, so short of a lot of advance planning any expedition is going to end poorly. I work hard for my ISK and I’m not going to casually throw it away.

(Brian Kith) #851

While I hope that’s not the case, it’s more a problem with the Risk than with Time. It seems that average player in average ship in average filament is about 50/50. It’s certainly been my experience with the content as I consider myself an average player. It seems to jive with what others are reporting in this thread as well.

You’re also demonstrating exactly what I postulated. You’ve done the Reward / Risk calculation and realized that the rewards are not commensurate with the risk associated. You haven’t exactly said so, but the fact that you would take the time to comment seems to indicate that you likely view the Fun and Time ratio to be very much in line for you, which is good. CCP has your interest, but they haven’t sold you on the Reward / Risk.

Down that path is Resource Wars. I don’t want Abyssal Deadspace to end up there. I want to like it. I really, really want to like it.

(Arthur Aihaken) #852

Not true. I clear L4s when I could make more ISK by blitzing, I sometimes blitz just for something different and occasionally I run Burners. I theory-craft lots of different fits, and it’s less about maximizing ISK/hour and more about the level of enjoyment.

Visually I like the new content. I’d even run it if the rewards were comparable to L4 missioning, again - just for something different.

What I won’t do is throw away billions of ISK in ships and implants just for the chance at maybe getting a half decent loot drop if a RNG spawn doesn’t smite me. This is before having my Abyssal exits stalked and offering up free ganks on an automatic suspect status.

(My Cat Meows) #853

I guess CCP has the issue that they don’t have a lot of options about what to put into the loot container. It’s basically the new ships in form of their raw components. Multiplasmids were removed after reddit and the filaments are just the instrument of reproduction (You don’t run sites to be allowed to run sites) for which i don’t understand why they deflate their value. I guess the initial plan was to have the multiplasmids as the high demand items in there to justify losses, but yeah whatever.

also: has anyone found the key tactic to the 4 renewing leshaks in T5 yet? I’m just failing as they outrep the dps while i just sit there and explode after 15min :smiley: :smiley: Dragging them into a non-rep cloud also isn’t a thing since they seem to wander around not caring about your own position… and even if, they’re so slow you’d have to wait ages for them to move :smiley: Anyone got an idea and is willing to share? :> Bump them into the cloud? :smiley: :smiley:

(Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance) #854

The key seems to be chuck as much bling as you can at them and pray while it doesnt matter, and then when it hits TQ, not do them.

(erg cz) #855

Tier 1 : material and skill books for frigates
Tier 2: add frigate level BPC to the loot
Tier 3: add cruiser skill book and additional modules BPC to loot table
Tier 4: add cruiser level BPC and battleship skill book
Tier 5: everything

Not that hard, I think.