Yeah, “a number” was changed to “several”. Does not indicate any important change in the treatment of newbies, though.
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That’s kind of a nature vs nurture argument. You are essentially saying that the kind of player a newbie will grow up to be is informed by what happens to them in the beginning, and further you are saying that experience of type X causes them to become a “good” kind of player.
Well, you’d have to offer proof of that for us to believe it. It may seem like I am saying something similar in that I am saying experience of type Y will cause them to develop into a “bad” kind of player, but not quite. I am saying that experience of type Y (or X) requires a certain level of maturity to be encountered and assimilated successfully. It’s not that being forced to eat peas will make them not like peas. It is that forcing them to eat peas may not make any sense to them whatsoever and it may replace/preclude an experience that they might be able to make sense of, like eating apple sauce. And, what’s the rush, anyway? They can eat peas in a week or a month when they’re tired of apple sauce or want something a little chewier or just want something green. And now substitute mining veldspar in their Venture for eating apple sauce and substitute being exploded in their Venture for eating peas and you can see what I mean.
Losing a ship to a player is patently different from losing ships to the environment. In one scenario, they probably made a mistake and in the other, someone probably just took their ship away.
I shouldn’t have to tell you that losing $20 dollars is different from being mugged for $20.
Never said it changed anything in the treatment of New Players.
Just said it’s been recently reviewed and updated by a CCP Dev which means it’s still important to CCP.
Nobody argues with that. A person you answered to claimed that CCP considers current protections to be adequate, judging by absence of important changes in rookie griefing policy.
That’s already against the Eula -And I agree with that. You shouldn’t be able to grief newbros, put them in “the bonus room,” and all that crap. However, I think you are actually doing them a disservice by making them completely immune to PvP. I think it’s better they start learning about what Eve is and how to manage risk early, lest they wind up like this guy.
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I don’t think you should speak for CCP.
As for whether conflict impacts new player retention, I think the consensus is [expletive deleted] duh! What’s in question is HOW does it affect new player retention?
Giving newbs a grace period might give us more information on that subject.
Here then:
https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5504176#post5504221
There are plenty of direct CCP comments around, so I don’t speak for them at all. They have done it just fine. He even mentions pvp as one of the strong indicators of players staying with the game.
Then there’s this one:
Third point on the slide. Not the cause of staying longer, but an indication that those that die in PVP are doing the types of activities that lead to longer retention.
Then there’s this direct quote from CCP Quant:
…The most important variable deciding on whether you were still playing in month 4 was whether you got your ship destroyed by another player…
That’s in this presentation:
Why do you want less players in EVE?
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No, the stats would just show a sudden drop in retention then, because the rules suddenly changed.
I like the idea! If all 16 yr old’s had to play EVE before they could drive, I “think” the roads would be much safer! We would have much more defensive drivers out there. 
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There are no roadsigns in EVE.
Yet they still learn fast. Well, at least some of them…
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And I’m not arguing that, what I’m saying is the time stamp shows when the article was last reviewed and updated by a CCP employee. Those time stamps are only updated when anything in the article is changed.
Who are “they” you are referring too?
EVE does not fare any good as a driving simulator.
New players…
New players learn fast in any game, actually. Why do you think EVE is unique in that sense, and EVE experience can be applied to driving?
“We are not going to visit that city, there might be gatecamps”.
You win. It’s not worth the typing.
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No they aren’t. Databases timestamp at other times too. Proof of what you claim?
You have a 2011 player crying about losing an orca and leaving the game.
This certain level of maturity seems to not be correlated with how long a player has been playing, and has more to do with who the player is as a person.
Only in EVE, could you get mugged for $20, and then proceed to become best friends with the mugger.
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Like the experience of having a spaceship? In space? And trying to do things with it without someone blowing you away because you didn’t have the experience necessary to tell you not to do the thing that got you blown away?
That experience?
Is it that they are “children” or is it just that they don’t have the experience of an adult? Isn’t that what makes someone “immature”, that they just don’t have an effective world model, yet? Aren’t you really saying that “real” society allows the individual the opportunity to develop an effective world model before it starts fully punishing them for their mistakes and imposing harsh consequences on them for their actions?
What’s the difference between doing that in “real” society and doing that in “space” society? What’s good for one is good for the other; no?
Well, it depends on what the human is consenting to, too. Consenting to a sleepover at your friend’s is different to consenting to working 60 hours in a coal mine is different from consenting to giving away all your epic gear that you earned the hard way in Hello Kitty Online . . . but in none of these is the age of consent 0. In fact, find me ANY activity that someone with 0 applicable experience is allowed to participate in full-bore.
Obviously, players will mature at different rates, so one 14 day old might be ready for a full blown fleet fight over a citadel in null sec whereas another 29 day old might not be ready to have his belt rat wrecks looted by a fellow noob. But that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be standards.
Yes, but luckily, we are all just sitting at a computer playing a video game and the issue of consent has been resolved years ago:
Consent to PvP
- You consent to PvP when you click “undock”.
- You are not safe in 1.0 security space. CONCORD is there to punish, not to protect. Get used to the idea.
- In most cases, the only way to be 100% safe from aggression inside the game is to be docked in a station. Being cloaked in a secret safespot could work too.
So consent is fine in EVE. It’s just a bunch of made up stuff being shot. Nothing of value is lost.
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