Yeah, there was a couple of threads about it when CCP first implemented it back in 2012, one of those threads had a few CCP Dev’s and GM’s posting in it:
Yep, I knew about that one. What’s new to me is the extra systems now, the career agent systems, and a fair warning for systems in the SoE Arc. Good to know for the rookie help channel duties. Thx again.
2 Likes
No, go away.
1 Like
That is what almost made me quit. Rookie help channel told me to mine, guides told me to mine, people in my starter corp told me to mine. So… I started mining. Then I joined a corp, because people and guides told me to, one of those big ones.
Both those things are by far the worst experiences I’ve had in this game so far which almost made me not bother.
3 Likes
Yeah, they always keep posting that bogus 5 yr old Rise presentation for updated NPE which was based on players with less than 30 days playing. The funny thing about it is that CCP Rise tried real hard to make everybody believe that high sec ganking is what keeps players in the game.
Anyway, you may already know this but in EVE Down Under 2019 - Beyond The Friendship Machine, CCP Hilmar talks about new player retention and specifically points to the Magic Moment of when a new player decides to stay or quit the game. Basically the Magic Moment is when they lose their first ship. He then goes on to say if the new player isn’t part of a social group in Eve to help them understand and regroup from that loss, they’re more likely to quit the game then stay.
This is the graph of a study they did at the start of 2019 that shows just how bad new player retention is in this game.
1 Like
Liar. CCP Quant’s data looks at players remaining in month 4, beyond CCP’s “onboarding period”.
That’s why I can’t be bothered, because you can’t be honest, nor can you point to anything by your own assumptions. CCP Quant is an excellent data scientist. He doesn’t need Rise to tell him what his analysis is seeing.
1 Like
Which is consistent with what I wrote above, if you could get beyond your hatred for pvpers, who actually are some of the most social players in the game and who don’t want to drive people away from the game, but encourage more to be here. We don’t see the value in locking people away into boring activities and hoping they stay with the game. We’d rather than get involved in a lot of activities that allow them to find their “hook”, and ultimately be part of an active game that includes the possibility that they’ll be shot.
3 Likes
Getting back to the original topic:
I don’t think there’s any data showing a significant number of new players quit because of being killed in their first 30 days in the game through PvP. A few anecdotes, threads and help chat complaints per month don’t add up to a statistical trend, even if they’re consistently repeated for 10 years. (I honestly don’t even feel that Rise presentation from 2015 was statistically significant, given all the fuzzy qualifiers and terms used: exactly how much is ‘slightly more’ anyway?)
The retention numbers clearly show that the vast majority of players are lost between account signup and their first 3 days in game. This has far more to do with EVE not being able to meet the players expectations right from the get-go. From the website they log in to, to the download process, to creating a new character, to their first few hours in a ship: something in that process deters 4 out of 5 new players from playing again.
Industry stats show this is not that uncommon: most players spend very little time with each new game. If you’re going to change something to retain new players though, it’s in that startup process.
As for ‘age of consent’, you would also be removing from new players who want to do those things or are capable of learning from them, an option to do so. This would mostly negate the small benefit of added early protection.
The place to inform the player is in the startup process, the tutorial, the career agents. I also feel a new ‘mode’ of career selection involving player combat and loss should be introduced to the game. Having players learn how PvP and ship loss affects them right at the start would greatly improve any losses due to PvP.
1 Like
Whoa, don’t know where you got that from but I don’t hate PvPer’s.
1 Like
The whole base of your thread is wrong. Age of Consent is a silly construct made by humans, with barely any base in nature, which is where you should actually be looking for answers. “The Laws of Nature”. That’s because EVE’s literally a jungle running closer to “the laws of nature” than the real world does.
If CCP started asking people about what they’d want as Age of Consent we’d be heading into straight chaos, because people aren’t actually able to make informed decisions about something they haven’t even experienced yet. It’s just the wannabe intellectuals who believe otherwise.
This is about hardships. It’s just like in real life and new players can be equivalented (isthataword?) with children due to being thrown into a new environment with new rules and culture. The more hardships early on, the more the kid is able to deal with those hardships. The later these hardships come, the less it will be used to hardships.
The people who do not really know hardships are the ones who come crying on the forums, like xavier69 in that other thread. They’re victims of assholes they call parents, who shielded them from gaining any and all actual life experience.
Many people nowadays are being shielded from hardships, which is one of the top _(not the, but one of the) reasons for their immature, self entitled behaviour. Hardhips are essential for character development.
Yes, this is related to the topic. : p
Regarding the “two weeks” … well … it doesn’t really work like that. It’s about being shielded from hardships, which happen thanks to “life experience” which is gained over time. In a video game this time is highly variable.
Someone playing two weeks, eight hours per day, not encountering any hardships, will more likely believe that the game is without hardships. When your first gank (as the target) happens early on, then most learn that getting ganking is the norm and that they didn’t really lose much. Life experience.
Once someone is getting used to the environment, any changes in the environment _(or people’s behaviour in that environment) will more likely cause an opposing reaction.
When someone knows he can get ganked in EVE ONLINE, then he doesn’t need to be taught that he can get ganked, no matter the age. Someone who doesn’t know, but learns post facto, might not mind it and then there’s that asshole minority of people who believe that everyone’s a victim and that ganking is evil and only done by sociopaths, etc. etc.
I guess a good answer is that there needs to be a proper amount of people doing shenanigans, which teaches new players about these shenanigans. That’s why can flipping was such a great success for retention rate many, many, many years ago. It offered adrenaline, emotional attachment, learning and friendship.
In EVE ONLINE, only a minority of people is actually made up of whiny, helpless, little bitches.
2 Likes
Pretty much sums up millenials.
They also happen to be a very vocal minority.
1 Like
Yeah, I agree. A lot of experienced players have also quit too. The mass Exodus basically started about 5 or 6 yrs ago.
coincidentally when the changes to multiboxing and sov mechanics were pushed in.
1 Like
It’s not actually that simple. Depending on who you ask I’m a millenial as well.
It’s not about “millenials”. That’s just a term invented by the media.
If you want to apply a more accurate label …
… then you need to talk about where they’re mostly from.
4 Likes
I’m just going to ask Pedro about that …
… who is the only one who actually has the proper numbers.
1 Like
Shush, bloody whippersnappers 
2 Likes
Mayhaw Morgan is yanking your chains so had, your turning on yourselves. 
1 Like
OUT OF CONTEXT QUOTING REEEEEEEEEE
1 Like
EVE has an age of consent function. consent_to_pvp=gettimeofplayerundock()
1 Like
Whoosh.
I joined in 2013, guess im safe from your stereotyping.
1 Like