Why not?
Because the last thing highsec needs is overpowered farming ships that are virtually untouchable in PvP. Sorry, but if you want capitals you can leave highsec.
2 Likes
Which nullsec gets because of their big coalitions. Having them in highsec would be better for the game.
Yes, nullsec groups have invested massive amounts of organized player effort into building their empires and now get the rewards for it. Highsec trash like you have done none of that work, you donât get the rewards. And, despite the vastly higher investment they have made, their ships are still infinitely more vulnerable than your highsec capitals would be.
Having them in highsec would be better for the game.
No, it would be better for risk-averse farmer trash. That is not the same as being better for the game.
How about wormholes?
Chiming in here for a second.
The protection provided by CONCORD in hisec is vastly stronger than the protection provided by nullsec blocs. Letâs do a point-by-point comparison:
HISEC:
Speed of response: guaranteed 30 seconds or less.
Likelihood of response: guaranteed by game mechanics.
Magnitude of response: guaranteed destruction of attacking ships, regardless of size, type or number.
NULLSEC:
Speed of response: depends on availability of response fleet and cyno-equipped ship.
Likelihood of response: depends on availability of response fleet and cyno-equipped ship.
Magnitude of response: attacking ships can rally to counter any response fleet, and even call in their own reinforcements.
Although the protection afforded by nullsec blocs does mean that you canât just roam around in large, slow fleets with impunity, capital ships can and do die quite regularly without any sort of consequence for the attacking fleet. Conversely, in hisec, anyone attempting to attack a capital ship is guaranteed by game mechanics, under threat of banning for exploiting said mechanics, to lose their ship in a very swift manner. Given the vast EHP pool that most capital ships have can achieve, this means that they would be exceedingly hard to kill in hisec under most conditions^. You cannot compare those two levels of protection. Capital ships in hisec would be orders of magnitude safer than those operating under the umbrella of the nullsec blocs.
Now, having said all of that, the flip side to the equation is this: even though capital ships in hisec would be exponentially safer than those in nullsec, their opportunity to extract wealth would be considerably less. Extracting wealth in capital ships is typically done in two ways: mining with Rorquals, and farming anomalies with carriers. The richness of both ores and available NPCs to kill just isnât there in hisec, which means that players using capital ships to extract wealth in hisec probably wouldnât generate much more wealth than they already do in subcaps. So the direct economic impact would be relatively limited, even though they would be operating with near absolute safety so their risk would be negligible.
The issue I see is less economic and more military. Once you allow capital ships into hisec, you change the balance of power for hisec structures. And that would potentially be a large economic impact, and it would definitely raise the bar for smaller corps to anchor structures.
^Iâm deliberately ignoring wardecs here. CONCORD goes away for those, but you get 24 hours warning, plus you can always hide in an NPC corp or a non-war-eligible corp. Iâm also ignoring things like station games, flag baiting, etc. because all ships are vulnerable to those in hisec.
2 Likes
Tossing this out for a second: what if capitals only (so, carriers and dreads only, no rorqs, titans, or supers) were allowed to use gates into hisec, but you could only undock or use one of those stargates if you were in a war-eligible corporation? And if you happened to find yourself in hisec in a capital ship without being in a wardec-eligible corp, youâd get a constantly-renewing suspect flag?
Youâd be making yourself a huge target, the opportunities to extract wealth would be limited, and there would be more opportunities to explode capital ships.
I see that as a net positive.
This would certainly be better than the OPâs demands for CONCORD-protected farming ships. Iâm not convinced that capitals need to take over the last remaining capital-free space like theyâve done everywhere else, but it would at least have the potential to generate interesting content and not just more ISK per hour for farmers.
1 Like
Why did you just purge 700 members from your corp?
This is my primary motivation for wanting limited access for capitals to hisec: seeing more capital ships blow up. Let them in in a way that doesnât produce any significant increase to the generation of wealth (ore/ISK/LP), but in a way that does allow more of them to die.
New Eden has been existing in a state of perpetual accretion for years. Itâs time to burn through whatâs been stored up, and the best way I can think of to do that is to destroy loads of capital ships.
So do monopiles, doesnât stop government from breaking them up when they get too big and start hurting the little man. Same with EVE.
Tossing this out for a second: what if capitals only (so, carriers and dreads only, no rorqs, titans, or supers) were allowed to use gates into hisec
If this occurs then the situation is slightly resolved, but still skewed towards nullsec. In order to realistically break up goonswarm/test or another large alliance, you need a fleet of thousands of supercarriers and titans. But they can kill you before you amass such a fleet, thus having them in highsec and even better be able to be built in highsec is the only way to break the stagnation.
but you could only undock or use one of those stargates if you were in a war-eligible corporation?
This would only harm the weaker and pve oriented corporations, everyone else will just have 1 man alt corps which are deleted and rolled each time they are declared upon, or a large coalition like goonswarm can steamroll the weaker corps and make an even bigger monopoly of power and wealth.
And if you happened to find yourself in hisec in a capital ship without being in a wardec-eligible corp, youâd get a constantly-renewing suspect flag?
Sadly this will only further entrench the power of the elites and monoplies against the weaker player. Nullsec coalitions have the firepower to defend their perma suspect/war capital fleets, highsec does not, which means highsec loses. For highsec to be able to fight these groups, they must be able to opt out of pvp using highsec mechanics in order to amass strength before entering pvp.
Youâd be making yourself a huge target, the opportunities to extract wealth would be limited, and there would be more opportunities to explode capital ships.
I see that as a net positive.
Unfortunately all that will do is hinder highsec, and allowing those with wealth and power even greater access to wealth and power, since they control who gets to rise to the bar of entry. That is why I propose full access of all ships, with concord protection. You can slowly amass your great armadas, and nullsec is always countered by the threat of a surprise invasion from high.
Either way, I thank you for taking the time to think about new ideas, many more on the forums should follow you example Bronson 
I want the same thing blowing up capitals, but having highsec at a disadvantage wonât get you that. What do you think about this friend, part of my justification of full access to all capital ships for highsec players, and even ability to build them, is so that more of them can die. How does this work?
Nullsec has enough firepower that no one can challenge them, because they will be destroyed before they amass enough power to do so. But nullsec cannot do anything about capitals in NPC stations and build in NPC stations. If that is the case then nullsec will always face pvp all the time from groups in highsec and lowsec. Nullsecâs great reserve of capitals will always be declining in defense of their lands.
Well thatâs certainly a stupid comparison. Monopolies are broken up in the real world because in the real world we care about people suffering. The point you consistently donât understand is that in EVE people are supposed to fail and suffer. This is why scamming is legal, murder is punished with a fine, etc.
Also, why are you assuming that highsec players are helpless perma-victims? By population numbers highsec outnumbers nullsec, why donât you stop whining and crying about how you need buffs to compete and organize them into a powerful alliance that can crush the nullsec powers with overwhelming force?
(The answer is that you wonât because you donât care about PvP, nullsec capital fleets are just your excuse to get overpowered PvE farming ships so you can make your wallet number go up faster.)
3 Likes
Maybe we should remove highsec CONCORD as well and let players organize themselves?
1 Like
âIncompetent and proud: delta - 768â and you guys are no longer in SICO alliance? Dang, @Sabus_Narian , whatâs going on?
https://evewho.com/corporation/98584128
Goonswarm alone has over 31,000 membersâŚhow are you going to build enough capitals to threaten nullsec at this rate?
I dont know if it has been said by Sabus already, but one obvious solution would be to give every high-sec player a capital ship (or ships?) as reparations for systematic abuse done by the null-sec people. They could be claimable the same way as the free SP rewards.
And break the game by injecting tons of minerals and other items into the market? Yeah no.
And this is why I donât want Titans and Supers in hisec. To kill Titans and Supers, you basically need Titans and Supers. It would reduce all of hisec to Supercaps online, that that would be a horrible state of affairs.
(Iâm generalizing here. Itâs obviously possible to kill Titans, and especially Supers, with subcaps; Bomberâs Bar demonstrates this all of the time. But those are generally large fleets of subcaps vs lone Super pilots flying foolishly. In hisec that wouldnât be as likely because youâd either need to wardec or suspect-bait the pilot.)
But killing dreads and carriers with subcaps is considerably easier. Yes, they would likely become the norm for structure bashes, but there would at least be subcapital options to engage them.
Plus, thereâs the fact that Titans and Supers have AoE modules that would have to be disabled in hisec before even thinking about allowing them in. Having to disable certain modules just to allow a class of ship into hisec seems a bit of a stretch.
(Yes, we disable WDFGs and bubble launchers on Hictors and 'Dictors, but cruisers and destroyers are otherwise allowed in hisec so it makes much more sense.)
I think there is some room to expand the use (and destruction) of capital ships here without turning hisec into Supercaps Online, which is precisely what unrestricted access would do.
1 Like
Poor judgement, someone with a limited imagination thought bigger ships would be a good thing.