Allow Capital Ships, Supercarriers, and Titans in Highsec

[Salt_Foambreaker]

@Lucas_Kell

I know what a sandbox is. If a game has a path hammered into it where you start at A and work your way to B, that’s not a sandbox, at most it’s an open world game with fixed progression.

Wrong, try again

[Bronson_Hughes]

@Lucas_Kell

@Bronson_Hughes

Everyone can aspire to one, and everyone can obtain one. You just have to leave hisec.

But by that logic EVE stops being a sandbox, because it becomes standard linear progression.

You’re talking about allowing capital ships into hisec simply because hisec players aspire to fly them.

Is that not the very definition of a linear progression?

Capital ships come after battleships in the ship lineup so…that seems pretty linear to me. Am I missing something?

@Lucas_Kell

@Bronson_Hughes

Hisec players are only denied access to capital ships because of their own choices, not game mechanics.

Highsec players by definition play in highsec, and are denied access to capitals because the game mechanics do not allow them. In order to use a capital ship they have to cease being highsec players.

Yes. In order to use a capital ship they have to choose to leave hisec. It’s a requirement for the ship. It’s their choice keeping them out of capital ships.

It’s just like wanting to fly a ship that you don’t have the proper skills for. It’s not the game that forbids you from flying it, it’s the fact that you haven’t chosen to train the proper skills for it yet.

[Merin_Ryskin]

@Lucas_Kell

I’m not lying and have never lied.

And yet here you are lying in the very sentence where you claim to have never lied. It is indisputably a lie that I oppose all changes.

So does any change. Once again the logical conclusion of your statement is that nothing should ever change.

JFC you’re an idiot. The logical conclusion is that finite development resources should be spent on good changes, not wasted on ridiculous nonsense like your idea.

How do you know how many people would use it?

Because I’ve taken a poll, and the only person who would use it is your mom and only out of pity.

Seriously, how much demand do you see for existing highsec capitals? Were players swarming to bid on them and obtain them at all costs? Of course not. Only a handful of collectors care about them, because CCP has explicitly stated that any attempt to use them for PvP or PvE will result in, at minimum, the removal of the ship from highsec. Your proposal just generates more copies of something that already has minimal interest.

I’m just giving you an example of what they could also spend their time on, knowing full well that’s you’d be whining about that too.

I have no idea why you think “you’d also complain if CCP wasted development resources on this other idiotic idea” is supposed to be a compelling argument. Of course I would complain if CCP did a different stupid thing!

Thank you for admitting that you’re never being objective when it comes to change suggestions. I’ll keep hold of this quote so that it can be repeatedly pointed out every time you’re whining it’s because you only ever want things that benefit you.

Yep, you’re an idiot. Apparently you don’t understand the difference between “good changes” and “changes that benefit me”.

Then you’ve not read my proposal.

I have read your proposal. You make it explicitly clear that using a capital ship will not be permitted. You know, that whole “make it impossible to activate weapons against another player” thing. Or “gate them out of existing PvE and make special capital PvE with mid-range income at best”. All you’d be allowed to do is ship spin and float around idly in space, if you want to use it properly you’d have to take it out of highsec.

Highsec is an area of the game and if the game really is a sandbox then highsec should be a valid area for people to engage in end-game content.

I agree. Highsec should be a valid area to engage in all end-game content. Therefore I expect you to support the removal of CONCORD, removing all NPC stations and replacing them with player sovereignty, etc. After all, if highsec needs to be a valid area to engage in end-game content then it needs to contain all end-game content, not just the end-game content that you personally want to participate in.

[Merin_Ryskin]

@Lucas_Kell

Thank you for the personal attack.

You’re welcome. If you continue to be a liar and an idiot I’ll give you more of them.

But you choosign to define “good changes” as what YOU deem to be good. When you’re running CCP, that may be the case, until then your opinion is not fact. I think adding capitals to highsec would be a good change. In fact the more you say it’s bad the more I think it’s good because you’re the exact opposite of a good player.

Well yes, which means now we proceed to debate whether or not it actually is a good change. But that has nothing to do with your idiotic argument that I oppose all change because I object to certain specific stupid ideas.

Are you really sure you want to go down this line of well deserved mockery?

Yep. If you don’t like it you’re free to stop posting, I promise I’ll stop replying.

Apparently you did not, which is why you are wildly misrepresenting it.

Oh really? Let’s look at it in your own words:

If titans and supers were useless in high sec other than flying around to show them off, would that be a problem for example?

I do not think capitals should ever be used for PvP combat in highsec.

It would be good if there were some PvE that produced income somewhat on par with low to mid highsec PvE that required a group led by a titan

You have made it perfectly clear that your proposal would not permit capitals to be used in highsec in any meaningful way. To do anything but ship spin and congratulate yourself on assembling your trophy ship you would still have to leave highsec.

I ****ed a sheep because nobody else loves me.

Thank you for agreeing.

[QuakeGod]

[Salt_Foambreaker]

@Sabus_Narian

Umm, harden up salt foambreaker, you telling me nullsec can’t deploy a super/titan fleet in highsec to go defend them?

Because null sec is just one Alliance.

The more you post the more naïve you sound.

[Daoden]

The problem is everyone shouldnt aspire to be in a capital, rather people should aspire to play the game. Capital ships are a small part of the game and not everyone should try to get them. Ive played more of this game then you have and have 0 capital skills. I have no intention of getting them either because i dont feel the need to get a bigger ship to do the same thing i do now because those bigger ships are in no way better at it then the ships i use now.

[Runa_Yamaguchi]

@Lucas_Kell

It’s not really PvP, and it absolutely is a vanity project.

You are blowing-up another players ship…just because you disagree that ganking is not PvP doesn’t change the fact it’s vs. another player. As you can’t easily show the KB off nor are you really allowed/able to, it’s kinda a stupid vanity project if you want to keep arguing that point. That would also mean that you are saying all PVP is for vanity…

@Lucas_Kell

which means your argument about it being a vanity project is inaccurate

The fact you need to say “What you’re basically saying” just shows that you are twisting my words to fix your narrative…so I’m ignoring that one.

@Lucas_Kell

Noones asking for the WHOLE GAME to accommodate anything

You are literally asking for HS, which everyone in the game s effected by, be changed to accommodate ship classes otherwise forbidden.

@Lucas_Kell

If they let PvE players build capitals in highsec to showoff and they were useless and locked to highsec it wouldn’t affect the vast majority of the game.

But then you would want to use them…that’s the slippery slope we all see…

@Lucas_Kell

So why is it a problem to have more projects like that available to people?

Becasue skins do not effect people other than the exchange of ISK/product. You are asking for a rule rewrite which is a big change.

@Lucas_Kell

it would be nice if I could also play with titans and supers

See, you are already projecting where this is heading…people would eventually whine that they can’t do anything with their supers/titians and start to demand more special treatment.

If the only reason to play EVE is to fly these ships as you claim, then do it…or go on the test server if you are that desperate as it would be the same thing as having them in HS; pointless

[Ugren_Okaski]

@Lucas_Kell

No, I’m talking about adding things to aspire to.

I think that CCP very clearly states that endgame activities should not happen in highsec. If titans should be allowed in highsec, then some “super-titans” shall be added into game for use exclusively by nullsec entities.

[Bronson_Hughes]

@Lucas_Kell

Ultimately the question here come down to whether or not you think highsec players deserve endgame content. I do while apparently you think that only nullsec players deserve it.

I don’t think that’s the question here at all.

I think the question here is whether satisfying the desires of players to fly around in expensive, PvP-free^ trophy ships (or, depending on which version of this proposal you adhere to, actually use those trophies for combat) is worth severely modifying and/or breaking the existing and long-established balance of how hisec operates (and potentially handing a huge buff to existing nullsec blocs, again dependent on which version you’re going with).

I don’t think it is, at least not nearly to the degree presented in this thread. You clearly think it is. And unless one of us changes our minds on this, I don’t think there’s much more for us to discuss.

Thanks for keeping it civil. I know we rarely see eye to eye on the forums, and I appreciate you making this about the topic, not us.

^ Incidentally, even if Titans were somehow magically allowed to be “PvP-free” in hisec, meaning that they could not aggress other players or player structures, nor be aggressed by other players or player structures, they could still be involved in PvP. How you ask? Park a gaggle of TItans off of the undock of a station and boom instant undock traffic jam. I’m sure suicide gankers would have a field day with that kind of arrangement. To avoid that, you’d have to make them not only “PvP-free”, but “physics-free” as well.

[Daoden]

CCP doesnt advertise “play Eve, fly a titan” they advertise to play in a sandbox where there is constant conflict.

[Runa_Yamaguchi]

@Lucas_Kell

Why aren’t you allowed to? People do this all the time.

It’s the forum rules…you are allowed to but a bunch of conditions must be met which removes most of the bragging point so people don’t generally don’t. Also, if you think AE’s KB is padded because of the types of kills then that’s your perspective. If I see a F1 monkey’s KB then I usually think 'padded…perspective.

@Lucas_Kell

so you can show off your epeen, that’s a vanity project, and that’s many gankers.

Gankers don’t care about KB…they care about loot…enforcing the code…causing shenanigans. Different for everyone. Anyone that has been in the game for 6 months knows what a good KB is and what a poor one is…you are standing ground on an issue nobody is attacking.

How would it affect you?

Massive spike is prices for one…more space garbage in HS that most can’t do anything about…and most importantly, the demand after to allow those ships to be used for ratting or missions or something. aka the slippery slope

@Lucas_Kell

f somone can pour ISK into skins it’s no real difference to them pouring ISK in to a giant trophy ship.

As I already said, buying a skin is already in the game and does not effect anyone negatively. I’ve already talked about this so I’m not repeating any more…

@Lucas_Kell

t no point in there did I say they’d whine about not being able to do more.

I said PROJECTING…I didn’t say “you said”…

If you’re going to try to read, get better at it.

[xXmemeprincess420Xx]

Saying that its unfair that high-sec players, who cant commit much time into this game are being denied content because they cant use caps would have been a reasonable argument 10 years or so ago when null sec alliances had high requirements for people looking to join them.

I have learned that these days they take in just about everyone! Pandemic Horde does not even run backround checks. Why cant naari and his corp just join some existing alliance that is based in null? I am sure there are plenty of alliances that would like to have more members. Then naari and his mates could fly carriers and supers and such.

[Runa_Yamaguchi]

@xXmemeprincess420Xx

Why cant naari and his corp

Effort and risk…allergic to both. Besides, imagine the taxes generated with a project like a Super or Titian…that’s the real goal.

[Sabus_Narian]

@Bronson_Hughes

Everyone can aspire to one, and everyone can obtain one. You just have to leave hisec.

Everyone can aspire to live a good life with decent income, health care, security, and enjoyment. You just have to leave your country. Don’t they deserve to have a good life in their own country, why force them to move? Same with highsec players.

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Sabus_Narian

Everyone can aspire to live a good life with decent income, health care, security, and enjoyment

That’s much easier in some countries than others.

Bringing real world logic into it won’t really help the argument. Everyone can aspire. Not everyone can have (without moving from where they are).

[Bronson_Hughes]

@Sabus_Narian

@Bronson_Hughes

Everyone can aspire to one, and everyone can obtain one. You just have to leave hisec.

Everyone can aspire to live a good life with decent income, health care, security, and enjoyment hop into spacecraft the size of small moons and the power to wipe out entire fleets of ships. You just have to leave your country the regions of space where the all-powerful space empires forbid anyone from flying them out of an overwhelming sense of self-preservation. Don’t they deserve to have a good life in their own country their uber-weapons wherever they want, why force them to move? Same with highsec players.

Fixed that for you.

Comparing the balance of a fictional, online universe centered around spacecraft that routinely violate the laws of physics to real-world socioeconomic issues is a patently horrible way to design games.

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Lucas_Kell

while tat’s true, I think most remotely empathetic people would say that aiming for equality of opportunity is a good thing.

Totally for people aiming for equality. Those that oppose moves towards equality are usually those that stand to lose by things being more equal, in a real World sense.

So no issue with anyone wanting anything in game. For this change though, I hope it doesn’t happen.

Differences between the different security areas are a good thing and highsec could have it’s own “end-game” content without just reproducing what low, null and to an extent wh space has.

[Bronson_Hughes]

@Lucas_Kell

@Bronson_Hughes

Comparing the balance of a fictional, online universe centered around spacecraft that routinely violate the laws of physics to real-world socioeconomic issues is a patently horrible way to design games.

Handing the entirety of the endgame content over to the sole control of a handful of nullsec groups is also a pretty horrible way to design a game.

I agree that nullsec is broken in a multitude of ways. It doesn’t seem right to me that so few groups control so much of the highest level of infrastructure, including supers and titans.

But you don’t fix nullsec by breaking hisec. That’s like letting the air out of one good tire and hoping it magically fills up a flat one. Get a patch (no pun intended) and a pump instead, you’ll get much better results.

[Daoden]

Loads of videos with tons of other ships in them besides titans.