# An idea for Abyss

So I’ve been doing abyss for awhile now and its great tried frigates desi and cruiser and from my findings solo cruiser seems to be the most profitable for a solo player but also the least fun.

Cruisers have quite a bit of leeway in terms of how many mistakes they can make compared to desi and frigates and If you are obsessed with making it as challenging as possible you will find that solo frigate is on another level and is amazing fun especially in t2 and t3.

Now the problem with solo frigate is dps is just under what is needed for t3 even with implants and drugs so 1 unlucky spawn and its 100% loss. I mean that’s a 3b fit that auto looses if you get 3 full tank battle ship spawns in a row and the income is only 100mil/h which is on par with t4 cruiser.

So now I’m thinking dev time is a big consideration and you don’t want to mess up the balance that they have spent years perfecting in order to make the most challenging abyss content at least viable to run so what is the best way to do this?

What if you had a buff inside abyss that increases your damage if the number of pilots is under the max amount allowed for example:

Frig Abyss:
-1 = 30% increase in dps.
-2 = 70% increase in dps

Desi Abyss:
-1 = 30% increase in dps

And this buff changes as more players enter.

How does this work out mathematically:
Frig abyss:
3 pilots = 300% dps naturally
2 pilots = 200% dps + 30% each = 260% dps
1 pilot = 100% dps + 70% dps = 170% dps

So going in with more pilot’s is still the better option since you have to split loot.
How does this translate in terms of what site’s are runnable and isk split:

3 frig Pilot’s : Maximum possible is t6 which is 900mil/h divided by 3 is 300mil/h per person.

2 frig pilots: Maximum possible before was t4 which is 300mil/h, with the extra 30% dps they could do t5’s now which would be 500mil/h split 2 ways is 250mil/h each. compared to the 250mil split by 2 = 125mil/h each that the used to get.

Solo pilot: could only reliably do t2 frig abyss before which is 60mil/h and if they get lucky spawns can do t3 abyss which is 125mil/h so the avg of those 2 is something like 90mil/h. With the + 70% buff they can now reliably run t3’s for that 125mil/h and if they bling their fit to 3b they could do t4’s which is 250mil/h for the solo pilot.

Desi’s:
2: pilot’s could do up to t6 for 600mil/h split 2 ways = 300mil/h which is on par with frigates.
1: pilot used to be able to do up to t3 reliably but t4’s with a 3b fit still had a chance of dying in an unlucky t4 spawn. t4 desi abyss is 150mil/h while t3 desi abyss is 75mil/h so they where making around 100mil/h on avg. With the 30% dps buff they could reliably do t4’s for that 150mil/h with a chance to do t5’s if they are brave and want to risk death for that 300mil/h.

It would seem more balanced than current with this dps buff with the least amount of dev work and no disturbance to full fleet balance, let me know what you think?

Do you get a buff in PvP when you don’t have friends?

Yip, all decisions are 200% faster as people in groups seem to take for ever to make decisions.

‘Solo’ shouldn’t be the baseline to balance mechanics around in a multiplayer game.

You are already getting more loot when doing them in frigs (something I already do not like). So team up and actually share with others. I know, a completely absurd concept these days…

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Yea but all the meta for 3 manning is already sorted there is nothing new to explore test and do its no fun, this change will let everyone try new things and explore and figure out abyss again it will breath life into it.

And at the cost of 1/20th the dev time compared to changing everything completely and then having to rebalance everything again.

CCP has bad track record on designing multi-player PvE where the optimal solution is not multi=boxing. Most players do PvE for ISK and not fun, hence only the optimal solution survives. Recent example homefronts.

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Ok, so you already have a buff when you do PvE.

No change needed.

Even less amount of dev work is to not add such a bonus for bringing not enough ships, and to do nothing.

3 pilots have more firepower.
1 pilot on the other hand has 3 times more loot per pilot.

I think that’s fair.

If it means you cannot do higher tiers solo, then try a lower tier that works for your solo ship?

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They actually have 3x less loot if you do the math, its not linear its exponential.
Or if you want it to be more accurate they have 3x more loot from a loot pool that is 9x less.

They only have less loot because they cannot push as high a tier as multiple pilots working together can.

Maybe the Frigate and Destroyer Abyssals are trying to encourage you to work together with other pilots in this multiplayer game? I do not see why that needs a change.

Luckily if you have no friends online and do not wish to multibox Abyssals either and still want good loot rather than just play for fun, you still have a viable option to fly solo Cruisers into the Abyss.

Because the difference is too extreme (300%), if it was 50% more then sure that would encourage me to fleet up with other people but 3x difference just means its a waste of time.

And if you have no incentive to do it solo then there is no slow transition to joining up with other players over time. “Hey what do you do for isk O I do some solo abyss, O cool me too want to join up and run some?” That doesn’t happen if its just not worth running in the first place.

80% of the people running 3 man frig abyss are solo players with 3 chars.

Cruisers are boring as hell, people on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vWnkWAbA2Q) even give advice on how to afk them almost. In terms of fun cruisers are 1/5th as enjoyable as frigs and desi’s.

But you seem to be happy if something is boring and afk-able, I’m glad your not a developer you seem rather lazy.

If you don’t enjoy it, just don’t do it.

I do enjoy it that’s the problem its fun but not rewarding at all, this game tenders to people who want to afk and multibox.

You have it backwards. Your idea is literally about buffing solo frig play (+70% DPS) and giving nothing to 3-people-grouped-up frig play (+0% DPS), which makes it even less of a reason to ever group up. There’s already pressure on people who are already currently grouping up to disband and separate to do solo frig play instead. Your idea makes that pressure increase.

Why would a money grubbing ISK/hr solo person ever choose to group up with a friend and lose half their loot going from 1 frigate to 2 frigates for a friend only providing a third of the DPS: (260pp-170pp)/260pp. Why would they then again go with another friend from 2 to 3 frigs if it means each has to give up a third of their loot and the additional friend is only bringing 13% of the DPS (300pp-260pp)/300pp. Your math doesn’t check out.

The math you provided in your OP disincentivizes any kind of group up ever unless it is 1 person multiboxing.

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Fun is its own reward.

Since you are having fun, no changes are needed.

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Numbers can be tweaked down, its just way to unrewarding for the solo frig enthusiast atm.

But I do agree with you there still needs to be incentive to group up, but its also more likely to group up if people start solo at first.

What are the „right“ numbers then?

Hint: try analyzing the base case first.

Just enough so that a solo frig doesn’t insta die to triple bs spawn on a t3, because of running out of time.
Probibly even 15% would be enough ontop of a 2.5bil fit with max dps drugs.

Why not just add an auto-win option?

You mean like making alts so that you can 10 v 1 in pvp then fighting pve ships becuase pvp ones would hit back to hard, that kind of auto win?

The irony lol.