You obviously know very little about incentivizing proper behavior, I can tell you, it won’t be achieved by merely punishment alone.
When someone consistently makes errors, but yet then for once…finally does some good and is correct, you do not reward that?
So then their struggle was all for naught, right?
No wonder you are so bitter on these threads, you deny yourself the means by which you can control those around you, not as if it is some bad thing, but the dynamics of punishment and reward are to be used in good measure and at appropriate times. According to many, this was a good and appropriate time.
I say thank you and praise people when they do something good. I regularly say thank you to Karkur because she is among the very few developers at CCP who actually works to make EVE a better place. I also said thank you when CCP implemented some filter settings in the old map that was previously only available in the crappy new map. 2 examples of the top of my head.
CCP refused to do good with regards to this problem for over a year. That deserves no praise, it deserves a slap in the face for ignoring people who know better than them.
The struggle that they put themselves through is their own fault and only their fault. I don’t care for their hardship if they make their lives harder on purpose and against better knowledge and advice. People have been telling CCP how to fix this particular issue from day one. They could have fixed it a week later based on that knowledge. They did not. Not my fault they make their lives hardre.
Right, so in essense they are damned if they do, damned if they don’t? While the only method this can be avoided is by conforming to your prefered timeline?
Anyway, the only thing you incentivise by rewarding repairing failure is to make more failure.
Why should I when they shouldve done it right the first, second or third time?
You keep sidestepping the question; in your job, you get paid for doing things right. Thats your reward. If you make a mistake and fix it, do you think you should get a reward in addition to not being fired and continuing to be paid?
No, you are damned if you make mistakes that you absolutely do not have to make because people are telling you how to make a better feature and refuse to listen to these people and then have the audacity to claim that “no one knew” how a thing would turn out.#
It is nice that they finally saw reason, sure. But that does not warrant praise. If only they had seen reason much sooner, they could have spared themselves so much trouble and bad feelings from users.
You know it is not that simple, because many people, myself including, take no issue with the “red dot”, so pegging it as a ■■■■ up is a stretch since it is a matter of personal opinion and preference. So you can frame the question to suit your argument all you want, but it’s still an ill applied analogy.
These sound like arguments made at adults from children. Certainly you have enough common sense to know that this feature was controversial and not merely a one-sided and hated feature, and also…when I refered to a “struggle”, I speak of an internal one to stray from ill behavior into good behavior, not necessarily some great struggle of an external sort to do good work, but an internal one so as to set out to do that good work.
You really aren’t giving yourself a credible voice for CCP to listen to when complaining when they make desicions you agree with because they are not done in a timely manner.
Perfect analogy, as long as you accept that CCP is the child in this case. Because CCP refused to fix the issues with the red dot and insisted on it to stay broken and pointless like stomping-on-the-ground brat in the supermarket because it doesn’t get the choco bar.
It’s their prerogative. But this change and their approach to fixing the feature is just the last straw in a long line of straws of messed up features. Ishtars remained broken for too long, T3D remained broken for too long, Rorquals, Supers, Titans, caps in general remained broken for too long, structures remained broken for too long, just to name a few examples. Sugar coating and thanking CCP for baby steps did not help to make anything better in terms of their responsiveness and feature quality. Hence I refuse to thank them for something that they finally fixed after leaving it broken for too long. Praising them for essential work only reinforces the notion in (some) of them that they can get away with anything and players will still give them praise. That’s like spoiling a child into a horrible personality later on.
I don’t assume you are against it, that is a silly assertion because I stated nothing to imply that statement. You on the otherhand stated that it was a “■■■■ up”, I merely stated that your analogy does not apply to this situation, but this is all irrelevant to the main point being: credit where credit is due.
You two can go about with your approach all you want, but what matters most is what affect that approach has. Be aggrieved if you wish to, and punish and condemn if you wish that as well, but don’t expect to be listened to and taken seriously.
If you say so. Grammatically, you have excluded me for “Yourself and other people”, so yeah your statement implies I have an issue with it.
Did I? If I did it wasnt in this conversation. But yeah, I would have to agree that creating something that already exists but not managing to make it work would be a mistake. Dont you?
None, because you seem to be under the impression CCP actually listens to anyone about the mistakes they make.
My “approach” is how I feel about this subject and on a public forum my criticism of CCP’s actions is as valid as your wish to defend same actions.
1. Credit where credit is due
CCP does a good thing, it’s worth thanking them for, so that perhaps they understand such things are appreciated and will be more likely to repeat that behavior again.
2. Your approach at criticism is ineffective
When you complain regardless of good or bad that is done, and you fail to recognize factors pertaining to CCP or the core issue at hand (the other side of the story) and instead focus solely on your grievances, packaging them and sending them off to CCP as a means to attack so as to achieve what you want…it is an ineffective means of communication. A.K.A. it won’t work, and obviously you know this to be true.
So, unless you actually have reasonable arguments to those points I will no longer afford you the dignity of a response.
Thanking for fixing a problem they should have fixed a year ago does not equal rewarding them.
Which is what? You have further information on why a non-working function was rolled out and not fixed for at least a year? Because then you have info I dont.
I do know it to be true, thats why I said it.
In other words, unless you agree with me, Im not going to listen.
Which is ironic given I extend the courtesy to you even though I dont agree with rewarding failure.
Im not? Why is saying that I disagree with rewarding them for fixing a mistake suddenly equal to worry?
Im not going to make up excuses on their behalf. If they want to do that, they should do it and communicate. Which is something that once again they have not done nd could have nipped this entire debacle in the bud months ago with a single post.
Nope you said
Which means if YOU dont find a point of view reasonable you wont respond. In what manner hacve I been irrational in my views? I asked and provided examples of how people are NOT rewarded for fixing their failures. I dont see a counter to that other than sme handwaving and you saying “I choose not to even attempt to see it from your view, so it is done”.
I think when criticising how others complain, youy should look at how you engage them by the same measurement. You arent even giving people the opportunity to see it from your point of view at all. Just drawing a “them and us” line in the sand to produce further argument.
Well you said it. If you are saying things other than what you mean without your own knowledge, you should be worried about that.
No, this argument of “they didnt”. You are the one saying “oh but there’s probably a reason. You should give them the benefit of the doubt.” yeah that benefit ran out when it wasnt patched three weeks after it showed.
And they did a bad thing in releasing it broke in the first place and not doing anything even commenting on it for over a year, period. I dont see what this restating of factual positions is meant to achieve?
And again, reasonable based on your measurement of reason, which still hasnt been evidenced as anything more than “what I agree with”.
Hey you wanna end this, feel free to have the last word, but you havent convinced me to stop complaining about CCPs half baked roll outs and lack of communication vOv.
I am not attempting to get you to stop complaining about anything, my point is your complaints won’t measure up to anything productive.
Also, if you need me to explain in-depth to you about what a “reasonable argument” is, other than your suggestion that it’s only what I personally agree with, then you should let that fact sit with you awhile.
Seeing as how you cannot seem to focus, nor develop any well thought out arguments, and rather attach to irrelevant words and points, and are repeating the same failed arguments as well, I think we’re done here.