lol man, it comes with the job.
People in forums are bitter, they don’t represent the entire EVE pop.
But for sure this is better than reddit.
On topic, CSM CANNOT DISCUSS STUFF NOT PUBLIC ANNOUNCED, STOP BEING AN A$$.
It’s on the rules, read it.
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The salt over still undetermined changes is quite a yummy seasoning!
Thanks for all your input Brisc!
What I don’t understand is why this constantly abusive and off-topic POS is still not banned. But I think it has something to do with butt kissing some certain members of the team. I don’t know how interested you are in the integrity of the forum, but if you are, you should pay more attention to him and the reasons he is allowed to remain.
Others might be just flying off the handle over this topic. But his case is pretty constant about anything.
Never gonna happen. Its deeply ingrained.
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Unfortunately you and Mike are the only ones coming to the forums, so they are taking their frustrations out on you. I still think under the circumstances you and Mike have done amazing
You sure fooled me. I was unaware that advocating included trying convince us an upcoming one-sided change is going to be good.
He can’t give all the details. NDA… ■■■■■■■ wait until all is released ■■■■
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Lets see what we DO know:
- local is there to stay and not changing
- New “novel” intel tools for krabs
- This is specifically to target AFK cloaking, which is the counter to local that is here to stay.
= straight up bad nerf.
Doesn’t matter at this point what the details are. NDA, or not. Unless something changes. We don’t need to wait until release to know it is going to be terrible.
Choke on it krab.
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Me a krab! Do you even know what zkillboard is?
Anyway, seriously, stop freaking out. Its probably not gonna be that bad.
Did you miss when I said:
or
or
and
I don’t know what else to tell you, dude.
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At which point AFK cloaking ceases to exist. So why do you lobby for a change to cloaks directly when the local change you support will remove the AFK problem?
And guess what: the krabs can GTFO. Remember the good old days when EVE was a game that wasn’t for everyone, and whiny krabs were told to go back to WoW because they are useless trash? And when CCP had its best financial success? Pandering to people who don’t belong in EVE has been nothing but trouble for EVE and CCP.
You’re “advocating” for it while conceding that it’s not possible to give us what we want and supporting a one-sided change based on vague “maybe someday CCP will do something about local if we all put up with the AFK cloaking nerf” speculation. If you want credit for advocacy then you should be taking a hard line “no nerfs to AFK cloaking” policy until a matching local nerf is made simultaneously.
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They can just as easily say the same thing about you.
I am trying to balance the conflicting desires of two separate and diametrically opposed groups of players. I could easily say “no nerfs to AFK cloaking” until a matching local nerf is made and I’ll get ignored. Instead, I’m trying to make the change as fair as possible.
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They can say whatever they like but that won’t make it true. EVE used to be a game where “I won’t play if I can’t be 100% safe” would be met with “ok, fine, we won’t miss you”. EVE tried to be unique and maximize its appeal to its primary audience and it paid off financially. You absolutely can not say that EVE had a golden age of krabbing that we need to return to because as CCP has pandered to those players the game has become stagnant and CCP has been forced to prop up their declining customer numbers with login gimmicks and F2P monetization.
I am trying to balance the conflicting desires of two separate and diametrically opposed groups of players.
You aren’t trying very hard when one group, the group that should get the least attention from CCP, gets exactly what they’ve been demanding for years and the other group gets a vague statement that maybe someday you’ll attempt to ask CCP to think about possibly doing something at some distant point in the future. I see no fairness at all here, only a concession that the CSM is not worth having if their opinions are so quickly ignored.
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I still have that attitude. Nobody is asking to be 100% safe, and if they did, I would tell them that’s not this game. The issue isn’t that they want to be 100% safe, the issue is that there’s no agency to deal with AFK cloak camping. There is literally no counter. You can’t stop somebody from doing it. That’s the reason why it’s a problem. Providing a tool that lets you deal with AFK campers but doesn’t impact at the keyboard camping or hunting is not some game ending bow to the krabs.
Hunters have gotten a ton of things they’ve asked for over the years, from blackout to EHP nerfs to supers, nerfs to the Rorq panic, nerfs to a cynos, and a bunch of other changes. The krabs have gotten nothing but nerfed over and over again to the point that most of the stuff they did is gone from the game and you’re unlikely to find them out anymore. The numbers of Rorqs and super ratters dying has dried up because their playstyle has been nerfed into the ground. I don’t know how you can argue they don’t deserve at least getting rid of the AFK aspect of cloaky camping. Because that’s all they’re going to get.
Sure, you can demand equal treatment, and I’m fine with advocating for that perspective, but I don’t think it’s a strong one. You can pretend there’s no fairness here, but that requires ignoring everything else that has happened over the last three years.
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I’m pretty sure the idea of hunting the campy cloaker will be foreign to the krabs and they will still prefer to switch systems.
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But that’s exactly the krab attitude you referred to, by which “best strategy” is evaluated! I pointed out that the best strategy is not to log off (since farming with a risk of loss is more net income than not farming at all), you objected that krabs consider the best strategy to be one that is 100% safe no matter how badly it fails at everything else. They’d rather have 100% guaranteed safety by logging off than a billion ISK per hour of net income after deducting the value of their losses.
You can’t stop somebody from doing it.
No, but you absolutely can make that person a useless name in local. Why is it so much of a problem that a non-blue name is in local if you have arranged it so that if they do anything but sit idle in a safespot they will promptly lose their ship(s)?
Providing a tool that lets you deal with AFK campers but doesn’t impact at the keyboard camping or hunting is not some game ending bow to the krabs.
No such tool exists until local is nerfed, at which point AFK cloaking wouldn’t exist anyway. Anything that removes the ability to keep your name in local for hours/days at a time is a massive nerf to active play because local becomes a 100% accurate “an active threat is present” warning. And, as you pointed out, the krabs that reject any strategy with a chance of loss will dock or log off until that non-blue name is no longer in local and safety is once again guaranteed.
You can’t sustain that 24/7, but an AFK cloaky camper can. That’s the issue.
Again, wait until the new thing is announced and then you can explain why it’s the worst thing ever. Don’t knock down a strawman about what you think the change is going to be.
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But why do you need to sustain it 23/7? Protect your alliance’s active hours and do cooperative PvE together. Why are people entitled to 23/7 safe farming?
PS: the only reason anyone does 23/7 AFK cloaking is because it is required to mitigate local and prevent it from being guaranteed safety for your targets during your active times. If local wasn’t a problem nobody would AFK cloak anymore.
Again, wait until the new thing is announced and then you can explain why it’s the worst thing ever. Don’t knock down a strawman about what you think the change is going to be.
Why would I wait when we have enough information already? Literally any change that removes the ability to stay cloaked in a system for long periods of time, except for nerfing local, does exactly what I say this does. In years of discussion going all the way back to the old forums I have not seen a single proposal that does what you claim, so I have no reason to believe that CCP has magically found something that nobody else could have come up with.
This is the point. You don’t have any information beyond “a new intel tool” that will “…offer novel defenses against covert operations in New Eden.”
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How do you want local nerfed? Blackout? that didn’t work before, so how do you want Local to be nerfed?
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I’m impressed that pro-cloaking people will literally never stop bringing up Local this, Local that, Local etc. etc. etc., despite the fact that it straight up does not make sense. The people AFK cloaky camping are doing it to scare off krabs so that (1) you attack the average krabs’ morale and (2) you reduce the ADMs. The people concerned about Local are daytripping roaming gangs that are mad their position is being broadcast through intel channels. They’re not the same group of people.
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