The relevant minerbumping blog post from James 315 has already been linked.
But I could not resist popping in here to laugh at the miner that doesn’t know what he is talking about.
ha ha ha ha.
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Okay! That’s fair! I’m sorry if I missed parts, I’m a really busy person actually! My market’s slow now, though, and that allows me to take peeks and post. Today more so than even a few days ago. 
And you know what? You’re absolutely right! AntiGankers definitely should use ALL the tactics! All of them! But they won’t, because for them we’re literally evil people and using our tactics thus would make them evil people as well. Plus, when you simply refuse to use effective tactics, you can always stay in your imaginary bubble of achievements. Now THAT’s a way to be a winner, right?
I’ve written so much more, but why waste your time.
I’ve never heard of this, and took a look inside. I get the problem you’re pointing at, but I have no idea why you’d bring it up. This is EVE. They do share a common interest, which is AntiGanking. You’re mistaking their incapability for being part of an actual community as a lack of mechanics.
You can throw a bunch of highsec randos into a deadspace pocket and let them play it out, but that doesn’t mean they’ll be friends. For AntiGanking you’d need a way to actually make them friends, or at least manage that they follow some form of Hierarchy. Without hierarchy things simply don’t work, and 99.9% of them will rejectthis , because they’re full of themselves.
I know that, in actuality, they’re real victims of their childhood environment and parents, growing them into the people they are, but what you’re asking for doesn’t really seem to be doable?
How would you approach this?
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This is where you have to hand it to James 315. Somehow, he’s managed to unite a rag-tag group of players by giving them common purpose and by tapping into and exploiting their hunger for PvP encounters in Highsec.
It doesn’t matter whether I’m talking about the formal CODE. Alliance or the many players who are aligned from without that entity. The structure, goals, organisation, and finance are in place, together with education, comradeship, and just the occasional soupçon of (usually internally generated) drama. The perfect recipe!
We’ve been going for over 5 years, but all the above was in place soon after the advent of the New Order of Highsec.
If the anti-gankers want to stand even a chance of operating successfully, they need leadership and commitment (and a highly entertaining blog).Without those, it is, and always will be, a non-starter.
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Someone on the old forums suggested that the mighty tome James wrote enabled a social framework for people to stamp their mark on the universe despite somewhat more restrictive rules of engagement.
He tapped into the frustration of people sick of being nerfed, he provided a way for those that don’t engage in PvP but nonetheless had in interest in stuff being destroyed to indirectly participate in that destruction.
Much as I rib people like @Dracvlad I’d love to see AG gain numbers and perhaps provide a halfway decent resistance to gankers, but without a leader or a plan they’re doomed to fail.
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There are two problems with AG, IMO. The first is between the hauler and AG when bringing up the principal agent problem. How do you know you can trust the other party? There are no enforceable contracts in this regards in game. And by enforceable I mean you can’t go to a third party that will arbitrate disagreements and both sides abide by the arbitrators decisions. Each party has the option of going, “Nope!” and there is not much that can be done.
As for AG and their organizational problem that is based on the logic of collective action. AG is kind of like a public good. When you go and prevent a gank and impose costs on SG fleets the benefits are widely dispersed and there is really no way that AG can retain much if any of them. This problem will not really be solved by making SG use more expensive ships as those ships will get blown up and it will not address the issue of AG’s organizational costs/benefits.
Exactly! There are costs to organizing a group. Everyone hand waves this aside on the AG side, but there is one really easy way to check this: the number of people who start and run “largish” alliances is small relative to the number of people who play the game. Starting up a 1 man alliance is not a big deal. Runnning an alliance with even 500 -700 people is probably an exercise in herding cats. You look at something like Goons and it is quite an operation. Forums, an assortment of applications for things like SRP, tracking fleet participation, and so forth. So running alliance of actual people comes with costs…lots of costs and not just monetary, but the kind that eat up your personal time as well.
Yes! And that kind of organization is not costless, and people only tend to do it when the costs are out weighed by the benefits. I am not going to start up an organization that is just going to be sucking black hole for my time and money. I’ll want something out of it in return and even better I’ll have others to whom tasks can be delegated.
Now when we look at say, CODE. we know that there is a benefit. When they gank 15 freighters with an average loot drop of 3.5 billion ISK/month they rake in 52.5 billion ISK. What would AG get if they prevented all of those ganks? Not 52.5 billion ISK. Bragging rights? A spiffy killboard? Well, doesn’t SG get that too?
Yes. He has managed to bring together people willing to donate and players willing to shoot stuff and make something of it.
That and it doesn’t hurt when people get SRP.
Agreed. If AG actually found a way to overcome the organizational problems and actually started to run fleets out there shooting SG fleets…I’d be fine with it. And I am not opposed to looking at mechanics to help overcome this problem, but that would be a buff vs. a nerf to SG. AG will never ever benefit from nerfs to SG. If anything it will have the opposite effect. If nerfs to SG actually reduce SG then there is less incentive for AG to exist.
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Indeed, I’ve handled a few liquidation sales and subsequent fund transfers into that on behalf of other people when they left in protest at some of the changes to the game.
Yes, people gave me their stuff, billions of isk worth, and I didn’t keep it.
I’m kinda disappointed in myself, but proud at the same time
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this is how i ended up with a mining fleet.
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heh I’d have been equally disappointed and proud of myself if I’d kept it instead of purchasing shares for others.
Knowing the 3rd parties involved they’d probably have congratulated me on joining the darkside.
Edit, I obviously kept a reasonable agreed upon percentage, I’m not a charity.
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So I didn’t read the whole thread… apologies if this as already suggested.
In your anti-gank corp/alliance/whatever, wardec ganking groups. This would need to be done in advance of calls for help, so that you could actually engage within the confines of the war.
Then you’re free to engage them at-will. Of course, they’re free to engage you as well. But it will certainly let you preempt against them while they’re bumping / staging.
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we did this in devils a few times, it can be effective for some small to mid sized groups that do it part time, that like to stick together,
provided you can grab them in space you can smack them about for a bit and they move off/give up.
If they’re in any way serious though they catch on quickly and drop corp, assuming they were in one to begin with (they have no necessity to be in one really).
for larger groups (code/goons) though the cost of decing them can be prohibitive , and yes, the cost scaling system is arse backwards i know.
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If you want to truly antigank you need to gank the ganker.
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Like most else in Eve, gank vs. AG is kind of a head game. “Is this the fight I want to get into? Or not?” But, some examples:
-Mach bumping a freighter, cheap Slasher appears and bumps/harassed Mach. Mach pilot can’t really make out the situation, decides to leave for now. Freighter escapes. Gank attempt foiled-- this one at least.
-AG ship knows ganker re-shipping station (not hard to do, gankers tend to target passing-through traffic and get repetitive in their habits). Pretty much all gankers have sec status -5.0 or worse, so shootable by anyone in high sec. Station camp at the undock, preferably in a Thrasher or something comparable to a Cat, for fair-ish fights. If there’s a gank fleet, they may set up a side op to take your ship out. But no prob-- more freighter traffic passing through or mining going on while you’re playing cat and mouse. Real fun, too.
-Find a CODE apostle RPing dogma in Local. RP say some equally horseshite true believer stuff in Local, but from the AG side. Make it really earnest and over the top. Count on recent gank victims to back you up. Play word games and verbal jousting with ganker, everybody get all riled up and seriously ready to fight. Wait, chew cigarillo, win if you can, lose if you can’t. More mining happening and more more freighter traffic passing through in the meantime.
-Set overview settings to show people with -5.0 sec status or worse, and shoot them in high sec whenever it looks productive.
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Here is what AG can do…
1.) Patrol the choke points, Gank any actual identified or percieved to be bumpers.
2.) Be on standby with cloaky alt, or just an alt period for overwatch of freighters being bumped, warp Smartbomb BS to soon to be target at avg attack dst from Gate…wait for Gank Fleet light smartbombs before they fire.
3.) Start providing pvp/ganker style fitted ships with webs to for escort, use a squad per freighter, charge a minimal nominal fee for service, gank/kill anybody in official organization that purposelly gets a freighter screwed over, same group should also provide means to SRP, pay collateral, and/or recover lost goods by any means in event of gank.
4.) Dont bump the bumper, bump the target being bumped in direction of a warp out point, or Bump back at Gate if close enough.
These are some active in game PvP actions that AG can do and focus on, as the OP has asked for.
(Education is fine, but someone has to do the work, and if you claim to be AG, then you have to get dirty or shut up and lay your claim in the dirt.)
(btw im not AG, i personally believe they cant get their crap together to do any of the 4 points i mentioned above)
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LMAO, lets ask the jedi of the old republic how well that went for them?
Actually if you take his words literally and the New Halaima Code of Conduct literally…
Then what is written there, the actual mandate in truth…in “writing”
Then you can see there is no actual legal lawful mandate to provide for the fact of issuing a Permit to Haulers, only to miners for their time in an actual belt/anom, not flying to/from or traveling between gates.
Now that being said this is how would look at it…
Miner Permit to a miner in a belt/anom = Is a mandated law of the New Halaima Code of Conduct.
Issuing a Permit or even requiring one by a Transport pilot, is not…it is more in the terms of a City Ordnance.
kinda of like those arguments you might see on a youtube channel…
Law enforcement officer: you can’t video tape me
citizen: oh yes i can, your a public official in a public parking and law says my right to do so is protected.
Law Enforcement Officer(ganker): (hmm, he is right, but City ordance says i can kick him off the Jail property for tresspassing)
Thus ensues the bumping and grinding till a guns get drawn and another Charon dies over a misunderstanding
This is false. Ganking is a term of use in every part of EVE.
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There is a missing “/” there.
Ive corrected the typo.
It now reads:
If that really was the nail that hanged you up, goddamit Ramona, that is low.
Prevention and intervention are two distinctly separate concepts.
This.
This thread is about what AG can do, not what individual gank targets can do.
What individual potential gank targets can do to take precautions are exhaustively explored in many other threads. I myself have posted long lists/explanations on that in those threads.
This thread is about what means AG have.
I refuse to believe these people are so stupid they didnt already know that.
Its willful ignorance on their part in an attempt to stonewall/misdirect discussion on AG means/methods.
This also isnt a “grrr CODE” thread.
This thread is specifically about what means/methods AG have at their disposal.
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Thanks to those that have remained on topic.
There is some good content emerging here from between the troll interruptions.
Hopefully these supposed “misunderstandings” are now cleared up, and the thread can focus on its topic without further wasting time on those.
CODE have their threads.
Haulers/miners have their threads.
Let AG have a thread, for once.
PS: Yes, ofc AG can and should run education campaigns. Noted, agreed with and tabled.
After skimming through, I can see this isn’t an original thought on my part, so attribution where attribution is due:
A discussion of combat tactics is at best putting the cart before the horse, at worst a futile distraction. The human, social element is far more important. Organization, structure, community, a collaborative rapport among players pursuing a common goal. These are preeminent concerns. The nitty-gritty squabble over what module to use when or whatever is distantly secondary.
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