To me, that IS a long time ago. 
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Damn… 80s is the time when i have been watching series! 
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I started playing last year and left for about 6 months. Now Im back resubbing then left my old null alliance into the wormhole living for a new change of pace.
Everyone rides shiny t3 cruisers, so I set my goal. Then I saw 20 days for Tier V Cruiser. I remembered why I quit, waiting to get into my proper t2 logi was a hell experience, having no progress at all. I suggest Tier V training MUST be given its own queue.
There you go. If anything, the skill system is archaic, the time consumption to get there is massive. And of course, the T2 fittings to go along with it.
It’s nowhere different than playing Clash of Clans, you can’t pit in effort other than buying implants to speed it up to “progress” and unlock new content. Yes, of course there are skill injectors which kind of alleviates this issue by pitting your hard earned isks, but it is just a frustrating concept of doing nothing to progress other than making ISK. And worst, even I don’t know how to remedy this problem.
EVE economy is the biggest strength among all MMO (well maybe before RS classic), but the idea of no “character bound” items or any sort, is the best part of EVE. That what sold me into the game.
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For me, the main reason to quit was implementation of skill injectors. Basically , nowadays you can buy skill points for real money what I consider as game breaking move created only for a pure profit for CCP. Simply, no point to play anymore. So I closed my all accounts.
For me the fact that the longer you play the more advanced character you got was amazing,fair and unique feature, which made this game so different from many others.
Skill progression, above there are two players with differing views on this subject one who high lights the issue of characters who get hooked and then can’t get into the fun stuff fast enough, while the other not liking the fact that with skill injectors people can do that without long term planning.
CCP lost many players around 6 months to two years in because of the wait for key skills, their solution was a very intelligent one which tried to balance it off and in my opinion largely succeeded. I don’t use skill injectors, and it caused issues in terms of people making clean cyno 5 characters but on the other side it kept a lot of players in so I accepted it.
The scaling of the skill injectors is well set up and does still enable long term skill planning, it just makes it a bit easier in what I call the key period for newer players.
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CCP knows skills training system have flaws, but instead of changing they monetize it. All those stories that experience matter not SP are rubbish. How does experinece matter when comes to science skills for example?
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The discussion of SP v Skill of the pilot has always been applied to pvp situations.
Science as a skill has impact on the ability to train more advanced skills like jump drive operation, nanite engineering etc. that are peripherally important to many pvp situations, but there are probably better skills to point to. (edit: Thermodynamics is pretty key to pvp though; and that does require science to IV, which alphas start with).
That aside, the argument has never been that skillpoints aren’t important. It’s never been a binary argument of skill good, skillpoint bad. It’s always been, skillpoints are good because they provide flexibility in fitting and access to additional modules, but the skill of a pilot is critical, no matter how many SP a character has. Even a lower SP character can defeat a higher SP character in pvp if they have made the right choices and fly well.
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Eve Online is an experience in and of itself. There have been many times that I have watched a Sleeper ship in W-Space just fly around and do its thing. I often times ask myself, could alien life such as the Sleeper possibly be real is some far off distant galaxy? Have our thoughts and dreams created them from what we thought are only dreams and ranged limitations our solar system? Maybe one day in the future humans will discover a Sleeper ship drifting through space and think to itself…Haven’t I heard of that ship someplace else?
But then again…
There’s always Minecraft for the faint of heart.
Psst, Sleepers aren’t alien, they are human constructs also.
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This is offspring from statement that learning curve in EvE is insane. Aside from solo pvp (you have to now good/bad side of hull and know how to fit it) most activies seems very complex at start but very shallow when comes to actually doing them most of the time. Experience matters? In case of the players with the same experience, having injected SP will grant advantage over someone that didn’t do it. In case of non combat abilities it’s significant advantage.
People forget that P2W is not “I win” button. I don’t know such game by myself, I won’t be playing one if such things occur. In most F2P games P2W means that we will achieve some aspects of the game faster than others. Same with SP in EvE, we all reach them at some point but some will do it faster. Is it P2W? Yes, I paid money, real or artificial, to be better than other players. We can’t win sandbox but for sure have some advantage over others. No matter what CCP is saying (experience etc.) SP trading is P2W.
P2W is about RL money giving you advantages that can’t be gotten via realistic in game playing. Most people buying SP will be doing so via in game playing, so that makes it not P2W.
What is the difference if I’m paying with ISK? Same thing. Sell PLEX for ISK buy SP injectors.
Because for the quantity of SP that applies to any individual activity it’s not unreasonable to earn it in game. And it can be achieved by entirely in game means.
Simply because someone can choose to spend money to get their SP injectors via converting Plex to isk does not make them P2W.
I do not know any example of the game that you can achieve another level of playing by only spending real cash (subbing not included). There is always carrot on the stick (for free ofc, but very grindable).
To take an example of one that got fixed. World of Tanks used to have gold ammo, which could only be bought with RL currency (well with gold which at the time you could only get with RL currency). WoT eventually listened to the arguments and made them available for in game currency because they were ruining competitive gameplay. Though the level of in game currency is still fairly prohibitive for any kind of regular use. So could still potentially be P2W because the level of grind needed is excessive.
For EVE, there isn’t any example that you can’t get with reasonable time of game play, including subscribing via plex once you are set up, so EVE can not be called P2W by any stretch of the imagination.
Ofc I can call it that way. Expecially with said science skills which are necessary to build storyline items for example. Someone who paid for SP to train them will have significant advantage over me, training them in normal way (months propably). He paid, he win the race to build said items over me.
Except the market in EVE is big enough that doesn’t matter, because they aren’t gaining any massive long term advantage over you. They paid for convenience of having it now. But they also then have to make that cost back, where as you don’t.
So in most markets, they actually lost because their additional cost was massive compared to yours.
A true pay-to-win multiplayer game wouldn’t be very interesting, even to the dumbest and most easily amused. Pay money = win without any mechanics at all? Yawn.
Nope, they’re all pay-to-cheat: pay money, get “ahead” in the game faster than someone who didn’t use the cash shop, or have more stuff to throw at people. Sometimes it’s stuff that’s totally unavailable from anywhere but the cash shop, and sometimes it’s stuff that takes ludicrous amounts of real time (i.e. 100 years) to happen through “normal” gameplay. Or getting things mechanics would normally prevent, like something showing up in cargo in the middle of a fight.
Scanning skills for better finding sites, hacking skills needed to use better modules etc. We all train them eventually but some will do it faster with SP injectors, have more ISK than me because of that, influence, power etc., before me. Sky won’t fall because of SP injectors, EvE won’t die, but it is P2HA (pay to have advantage) because P2W have some really bad associations.
For me prime example is total war: kingdoms. There is a gold, currency that can be bought with RL money but it can still be obtained within game but for slower ratio. So we all eventually have the same units in the army (that’s why the gold is spended) but, because I didn’t pay RL for gold, it will take me some time to get there.
Yeah…kids these days! 