blah blah blah, We aren’t the bad guys, once we’re done we will give people the option of leaving, blah blah blah… No, you won’t, cause your Idiot sub commander up there already proclaimed
so don’t feed us this horse ■■■■…
that said. You can Have Nauplius, Pretty sure no one will object to that.
Is there anybody from the State? Because I want to note one little thing.
As far as I know “Forest of Glorification” is so called Triglav Minor Victory systems. And who have the most of them? Right, State. And so, question to the caldari: are you sure that we really can deal with another round of triglavian assault? When HQ of one of Megacorps is a part of this “forest”? When our capital is under gunpoint? And after such crappy treatment EDENCOM gave to us? “Oh, you don’t need combined fleets during invasions!”
Why I asked caldari? Because I still have little that little worm in the back of my mind: “Oh, maybe those foreigners care not about “the whole humanity” more than about their homes and their families…”
I mean, I respect efforts of pro-EDENCOM capsuleers and of ARC, really do. But are you sure that we should provoke Collective… if you don’t in fact want to throw State under the bus?
State leadership failed during the invasion. The resulting costs were massive. In lives, in systems and planets lost, and in reputation.
If they cannot learn the lessons and provide suitable ships and strategies to combat invaders then those in charge should be expunged. The fault lies not with the pilots and capsuleers. Give them the best weapons and they will be victorious.
I do not fear the Triglavians or their puppets. I fear for our own failings.
I think you didn’t got my point.
See, there’s EDENCOM, right? And each navy provided some part of their ships and crews to them. During Triglavian invasions EDENCOM seconded forces protected only their home empires. Invasions ended, trigs started making Pochven… And suddenly Valkanir said “okay, take combined fleets!”
Question. When failures of State forces started to be obvious why Amarr and EDENCOM did not came with the idea of landing to State forces of another empire? Why when we lost systems but there still was opportunity to save something State fought alone but when this all ended EDENCOM suddenly added Amarr forces to State fleets? Why they did it when it was late, eh? And after that we are supposed to trust them…
So, Ms. Sato? You raise some good questions, but …
The State fell down, hard, when it came to the Triglavian invaders. This is pretty much acknowledged all around, and I gather the State’s been trying to shake out the why of it and keep it from happening again. Meantime, there are in fact State forces currently active in Pochven, and hopefully giving a better accounting of themselves.
Trust EDENCOM or don’t, the State hasn’t stood down at all.
Also, it may not be my place as a halfbred dissident expatriate to say such a thing, but I don’t believe Father’s people threw off Gallentean rule to bend knee before foreign conquerors who, at best, raid their holdings and at worst, hunt them for sport.
Note that the threat isn’t to start a threat, but to increase an existing one. They’re hunting State citizens.
What does one enter a forest to hunt? Animals. Or bandits, I guess. Are the people of Caldari either of these?
In legendry, enemies of the Caldari learned to fear the forests, the haunts of K’vire and his bow. Will your ancestors smile if you now bow before intruders and allow them to do as they please?
Speaking for myself, these last days have stiffened my resolve. The Triglavians have done unforgivable damage to the fabric of the State; much of Pochven exists at Caldari expense. I’ve often said of Father’s people that you are, first and foremost, proudly yourselves-- that you seek to survive, as a people, at whatever cost. You guard your traditions and (much as the resulting policies pain me) your blood.
The invasion revealed a weakness in the State’s defense. Will you bow your heads before conquerors who discard your traditions as meaningless beside their own and cheerfully alter your bodies and blood to suit them?
Even in the bombardment of Caldari Prime, forced to defend against a military fleet with ragtag company organized around a water freighter refitted for use as a carrier, the Caldari did not despair. Could you truly face your ancestors if you bent before an enemy who’d steal your very stars?
… Huh?
… I just want to have time. Time for the State to reform, adapt, prepare. For the State to be prepared for another strike before it will hit, not after. And if it’s possible to delay… I think sometimes we need to calm our hearts for mind to see what we should do. Otherwise we will simply bleed out.
Heh, and of course I hope that EDENCOM (not EDI and other EDENCOM aligned capsuleers — no questions for them) will be a bit more supportive if (if) somebody will fall along the way again.
Please provide an update on the status of the captured militia forces.
Specifically method of containment and debrief.
Those who committed poshlost activity are being held in a secure centre within Krai Perun’s domains.
The council shall discuss the fate of these marine’s & coordinate with the convocation & come to a decision soon.
Kybernauts Sub-Clade,
Celltear
Citation needed?
I am not referring to independent capsuleers that have not proven themselves to not be an enemy combatant in these times of high tension, of course, nor those military vessels under EDENCOM’s command. The only other vessels being engaged by Triglavian forces are pirates. Do you have anything to base this claim on?
Caldari military vessels being hunted in Caldari space would, by itself, be kind of a problem, Ms. Malitia, regardless of who’s commanding them.
Are you going to say they’re not Caldari, but EDENCOM citizens all of a sudden?
And that’s assuming that nobody else, AT ALL, is being hunted. Your record of correctly predicting your masters’ actual attitudes towards civilians has been kind of taking a beating lately. We could take that as you being nicer than they are and wanting to think the best of them, or we could just take it as “you don’t actually have the foggiest and are just trying to stir up a fog of muck.”
Only those under EDENCOM’s command are ever aggressed, an organization that has demonstrated themselves to be hostile. On the other hand, standard naval forces, or those on customs duty, are left completely unscathed, not to talk about the complete lack of evidence that any civilians have been attacked. Now, is the fact that Caldari lose their lives through service under EDENCOM regrettable, especially those sent to their deaths inside Pochven itself? Of course, and it is something that pains me greatly throughout all this, which is why I have been such an advocate for the normalization of diplomatic relations and the cessation of these wasteful incursions, but that is not the picture you are trying to paint here. These heroic men and women lose their lives as proud soldiers. Combatants. Not beasts hunted for sport. That’s your own, entirely unsubstantiated view that speaks more for your own attitudes towards an enemy force than anything else.
What? Are you referring to my initial willingness to negotiate with ARC and pushing for a collaborative effort? That was before additional information came into light.
I know you’d rather maintain the illusion that I am here to deceive anyone and only come here to speak lies and spread false propaganda, Ms. Jenneth, I am certain it makes it much simpler to hate me, but to this day I have not willfully said a single lie. I wish for all this pointless bloodshed to end, and I fear that this latest series of hostile incursions might lead to a needless re-escalation of conflict. I would rather prevent that.
I wonder how much of what you have said will turn out to be true, Ms. Malitia. It is not clear that the Triglavians actually have a concept of “civilian,” and their reaction to attempted evacuation suggests: not so much. They’re now “Aspirant Narodnya,” apparently.
My assertion that Triglavian forces are hunting State citizens is based on the following: it is clear that the Triglavian Collective continues to regard certain systems, the “minor victory” systems, to be “the Forest of Glorification,” and has continued raids there. In addition to casualties among the actual defenders (State citizens, military or not, EDENCOM or not) and passing eggers, it is highly probable that they will seek additional targets, especially long-term. There’s a lot you can take-- harvest, if you like-- from such a place: resources, materiel, people. Their proxy, himself seemingly a traitor to the Federation, has just directly threatened planetary assaults.
It’s interesting to me: the Triglavians haven’t historically dealt in concrete threats of this kind. It’s been “such and such or be extirpated.” Pretty vague, but I guess usually sufficient. Now apparently somebody’s figured out that at least some capsuleers actually care what happens to civilian populations, which lets them try threatening these.
Which, is about the most elementary thuggish tyrannical tactic in the big book of thuggish tyrannical tactics. “Resist us, and your people will suffer.” It seems like the people usually have a reasonably good idea of who’s in fact responsible for their misery, though. Nobody much likes a bully, after all, and the Caldari even less than most.
Now it’s starting to look like there might be an opportunity, if not to save the people of Pochven, then to avenge them. ARC’s work is likely over for now. But ARC had friends (outside its small core, it was always mostly made of friends, really), and having seen what you did to the evacuation fleets, I’ve never been so eager to watch someone’s home burn.
It’s time you learned how it feels.
See you in space, Malitia-hnolku. Hopefully many, many times.
A matter of semiotics. One may be both, in any case, the Collective does indeed make use of conscripts, particularly Perun, so one may argue one way or the other regarding their civilian status, not that this is something of significant consequence or anything of apparent interest to you.
The Triglavians have, however, historically dealt in reactive escalation. Whether ARC themselves is responsible or not does not matter, an attempt to land armed forces and deploy fighters, drones and bombers has been made against Pochven. The reasonable escalation of that would be to strike back in a similar way. I can only hope that they continue to exercise restraint, seeing as that attempt was thwarted.
Violence for the sake of violence, death for the sake of pleasing yourself, thinking you are doing the right thing. I think I am starting to see the point some have made about us capsuleers, it really does seem irresponsible to give such power and agency over people so unstable and violent. Seems like a recipe for disaster.
I would rather not.
It is worth noting that not only is Mr. Raubzen’s corporation (Mother Cluckers) apparently dedicated to defending the cultural sites of pirate factions, “in complete defiance of the empire’s [sic] wishes to paint these cultures as criminal”, but another corporation in their alliance (The Wormhole Police), is named “The Blood Raiders Children’s Charity”, with the following description of the corporation that they’ve made publically available:
The Blood Raiders Children’s Charity is heavily supported by The Mother Cluckers wormhole police. Without their generous donations those hungry Blood Raider orpans would starve to DEATH!
Our members dedicate their time to maintain the charity and to provide meals and toys to hungry Blood Raider children everywhere.
There is no greater joy to see their smilles (full of needle sharp teeth) when we bring them a fresh corpse donated to the cause by The Wormhole Police…
I’m not sure, at this point, if this is a tasteless joke that the Kybernauts are entertaining or if they’re really deluded enough to believe this man is actually some sort of authority, or perhaps merely that their enemies will at least see him as such.
I certainly advise those with any bit of sense to not give anything resembling weight or serious consideration to anything he says.
An update, the Planetary Landing Carrier was destroyed in low orbit over Skarkon II and was lost with all hands save for one pilot who survived in a Locust class fighter.
This was after attempting to make contact and alert them they were in violation of restricted airspace. The unfortunate loss of life was completely avoidable, and the surviving pilot is being debriefed now and will have counseling services available as needed following this tragic end to their operation.
Petty… so focused on theater within you set aside your vision from real goals and true threats faced. Corruption from within, finance at the heart, internal affairs rot, yet they still wish to seek the fruits of their dreams…
Long have some led their fleets through honor and distinction, but with a blind eye and have have strayed from the path… those who wished to remain true to the flow of virage were offered glorification, those who buried themselves in the weight of their inward lust for veracity were left behind.
Our Hallowed Domains shall remain the Path to Sobornost,
Those who wish to defile it shall be extirpated.
Celltear
Kybernauts Sub-Clade
I have removed multiple off topic messages from this thread.
Everyone’s a bit heated right now. Do keep in mind there are proper channels for discussing ones issues. Do not disrespect other pilots and organizations by messing up their message.
Thank you,
Alexandre Arthie,
Directive Enforcement Department
CONCORD Assembly
Oh let’s see here:
And now you offer them counseling services.
Tch. The only thing that pilot should get is three high velocity rounds to the forehead.
Along with every other poshlost narodnya involved.
If this world dealt in justice, we’d all be in some trouble-- all our blood-soaked caste, and you and yours more than most. Instead, it deals only in consequence, leaving humans struggling to build a “justice” of our own.
One of the most engaging areas of “consequence” is the unintended kind. You didn’t help weave Pochven to make a hunting ground for your enemies, but, here we are. I look forward, so much, to the fun we’ll continue to have together.
Maybe, at some point, we’ll both find our “justice.” I expect it’ll be a while, though. A few trivial deaths isn’t a patch on what you’re owed, you and yours. But, as in so many things, really, it’s the journey. I hope it’s long.
Thank you, weak-souled creature, for your part in helping me find, again, my taste for the hunt. See you in space.
Again, and again, and again.
We have gathered the scattered survivors from the unsanctioned incursion into our domains. After several days of debriefing within our Krai, we are prepared to return them to the convocation, as we do not believe in keeping hive-linkers or hostages. They will be transported to Yulai and be available for retrieval at 23:00 NEST tomorrow, the 21st of May. We will allow one hour for a qualified representative of either the Caldari State, Edencom, or ARC to take custody. After that, we make no further guarantees about their survival.
As a matter of administrative importance, it is our understanding that Zoe Anneto was acting on their own accord, or at least was not acting as a member or agent of ARC. It is further our understanding that ARC is largely a non-partisan organization. Therefore, we do not hold Dutchgunner or ARC responsible for this subversive act. However, we do have two concerns. First, lax security enabled an agent acting on behalf of the Caldari State to infiltrate their humanitarian operation. Second, after it was made known by a representative of Convocation of Triglav that humanitarian actions were not required, they still chose to move forward - endangering pilots and personnel in the process and forcing our hand.
The proven of the Perun Domains shall continue the deployment of troika formations to any future response to sublimation of poshlost flow outside the struggle.
On Behalf of the Kybernaut Clades,
Bing Kaz
Diplomat, Kybernauts Sub-Clade