Would you trust someone to enter your home if they insisted on being accompanied by a pack of rabid, unleashed hounds? Would you care for their virtuous motives when the beasts maul your family, uncontrollable? Would their claims that they are not to blame because they were not the ones that commanded the beasts directly have any value?
The solution is to select a better escort.
The solutions proposed by the Kybernauts were not on equal footing. Perhaps you should talk to your comrades before flinging accusations.
On top of that, they never showed up either.
Uh- so?
The only value Vale has in this discussion is that it displays your failure to control your own escorts. I am not here to get involved in aimless fingerpointing about what could have went better. I am here to hopefully change what you are about to do so that there is no more pointless bloodshed.
Will you all kindly stop collating EM with ARC, and calling us âtheir escortâ. If we end up in a system shooting (pro)trigs, then we end up in a system shooting (pro)trigs. If an ally we are in the same situation with asks us to stop hostilities or refrain from starting any against some other party then we will of course consider that request in context of other matters simultaneously going on. If we make a clear commitment beforehand we will stick to it, as anyone who has dealt with us can attest to.
But if we have not made one, expecting an EM fleet to follow ARCâs commitments because ARC was in the same system with us 20 minutes ago is ludicrous.
Also will you kindly stop collating EM with EDENCOM. We are not EDENCOM or CONCORD loyalists; our co-operation with them begins and ends with the Republicâs. Skarkon and Krirald are considered Tribal lands under occupation and Triglavian forces and their supporters are considered valid targets, but there end our political ambitions in the matter.
Thank you.
Remind me Arisa, whose domain was trespassed first?
Etiquette and protocol are to be respected for good reason.
The rules of hospitality apply here.
Humility my serve better than belligerence if an invitation is required.
Might it be wise to ask what fleet composition would be acceptable to the collective rather than imposing your will?
I donât believe I ever did that? I mean, you (Or a significant number of your members, if you prefer) are very much militant supporters of EDENCOM, or at least were during the invasions, I am not sure how even you could try to deny that, itâs a very well recorded fact. But it ultimately doesnât really matter. You are entering as a hostile military force, doesnât matter if you are Republic insurgents, Amarrian crusaders or independents residing in some barren wormhole, you will be dealt with the same.
If you wanted a less violent outcome, you should have tried a more diplomatic option.
Really now? I recall EM taking direct action across all New Eden, even in the Empireâs sovereignty.
Yes, we provided a fighting force for the EDENCOM defense and we might do it again in a similar situation - depending on the Republicâs stance on the co-operation and what makes strategic sense in order to defend Tribal space. I am not trying to deny that, nor do I have any interest in doing so.
Still, we are not EDENCOM.
You must have misunderstood what I said. Taking action against a valid target anywhere that valid target is is very well within our normal MO.
What I am trying to say is that EM is not directly loyal to EDENCOM or CONCORD, but that our loyalty to them is only through that of the Republicâs. A big decisive factor in our support to EDENCOM in the invasions were the repeated calls for co-operation by our government.
Well, no argument there. To my knowledge thereâs no known capsuleers serving under EDENCOM. You are all not part of them any more than we are part of the Collective.
Was I supposed to ignore the explicit words of Commander DutchGunner that âARC wishes to ask all four Empires, EDENCOM and all loyal capsuleers and capsuleer organisations to take part in joint operations into Pochvenâ? I acknowledge that my point could have been articulated better, so let me state it more plainly. The Empires, EDENCOM, and their loyal capsuleers could have undertaken the efforts required to relocate civilian narodnya at the time the threat was first known. That they apparently failed to do so on Skarkon and other worlds is clearly a reflection of how much they truly valued those lives. Itâs a little late for concern, now.
And yet that is the explanation we kybernauts are now asked to accept; that after all this time, stranded narodnya lives are now too precious for you all to ignore! Oh no no, this could not possibly be a military invasion force dressed up in the guise of a humanitarian mission!
Ridiculous, indeed.
Hmmm⌠that would explain why Maldavius had the Wirashoda fortizar crew install a quarantine zone and additional soundproofing around the Imperiumâs diplomatic mission.
Based on the quality of dialogue so far, wholly inadequate.
To be fair, it is doubtful that modern science has invented the kind of soundproofing technology necessary to contain this particular threat.
Failed?
Evacuation Flight from Skarkon Destroyed by Triglavian Werpost Batteries; Casualties Unknown
The Skarkon Tribal Resistance Army continues to defy the Triglavian invaders on Skarkon II
I still have no idea why you are so fixated on Skarkon or call it a failure. This is an ARC thread and despite their support too the Skarkon evacuations have never been an ARC op as such. Itâs also basically one of the showcases where evacuation was very successful - not 100% so, because itâs a â â â â â â â planet under siege, you donât just pack up everyone and go - but very successful anyway, to the point that the parliament has had to take a stance on where to put all those people.
Pro-tip: if you want to make a case against evacuation efforts success, pick literally any other example but Skarkon.
Very well. I concede your point, at least with respect to Skarkon.
Back to the topic at hand, since a lot os posts seem to be about old frenemies sitting around afire in the woods remembering their past deeds.
ARC is showing up with industrial transportation to remove people that probably will not be missed by the Clades
Stribog Clade may be ok with said industrial ships removing said people
Pew pew people want to pew pew from both sides, before, after and during said operation, something that brings trouble to said operation
Stribog Clade does not control Triglavian response, ARC does not control Capusleer response
A rescue operation happening during pew pew is dangerous for the non capsuleers involved
For the rescue operation to work, pew pew people would have to agree to at least not shoot the industrial ships, would be more efficient if they could repair them if shot, if nedded shoot/disavow people shooting at them during the act
Since humans have the hability to use their tapioca minds (a compliment) to virtualize scenarios and project possible futures, pew pew people involved can use reasoning to present a scenario where they refrain from shooting each other, or at least, shooting the industrial ships
Since we are not Sansha, we canât acess what is happening in each others heads, so we require people declaring their projected future intentions to react to them
And that brings us to the current situation:
How many of the parties in this topic are willing to declare an intention of not shooting and/or repairing said industrial ships removing people that will not be missed by the Triglavians, in a way that allows the rescue operation to ocurr with minimum conflict between groups that do not trust each other, for the duration of said operation?
and
How many of the parties involved in this topic are NOT willing to do so?
If the groups would be so kind to put their intentions on their table, the operation can be better planend and have more chance of success, so please, go ahead.
I second this sentiment. The popular pass time of pointing out one anotherâs faults has no end and lacks productivity.
I suspect Truse Slave puppetry behind EoM activity, although I have no evidence to support this.
The political crossfire on display here obscures our common enemy!
Iâve seen this movie.
What happens is almost always the same.
For simplicity, I will label the parties in my example âAâ and âKâ. A being a party wishing to evacuate civilians and K being a party in nominal control of the space.
All of this nonsense is intended to humiliate A and for K to try and show that âthis space is ours, we make the rulesâ.
Itâs tedious in its predictability.
Thus the only course of action is for A to arrive in force and eliminate any K elements. This will of course make K scream about âtreachery of Aâ on the IGS, but well, they were going to do that anyway. And no one would be convinced by it.
That is what happened last time.
Hence the opportunity for people to actually declare their intentions beforehand, regarding specifically the transport ships providing evacuation efforts.
Combat ships are for combat, they will fight eventually. It is a question of âHow long am i willing to hold my trigger happy urgesâ ?
Will not shoot and am willing to die
Will shoot if shot upon
Will shoot as soon as the evacuation ends
Will shoot as soon as i get there
Will shoot everything and everyone, including the civilians, their babies, and their stupid baby toys.
Let us get to the meet of the matter. If Clade capsualeers offers security against their own militants would ARC suffer their protection?
While interesting, that might be too much to ask for.
The announced mission objective is the transports getting in, picking certain people, and getting out in one piece.
There are many ways to get this done that even involve people shooting each other, as long as they donât shoot the transport.
When this was discussed before, it did not end favorably. They requested to take over piloting the transport ships and wouldnât allow any combat ships not piloted by them in system.