As the chief of the Rhiannon clan I want to emphasize Elsebeth holds no official position in the clan and is for all practical purposes an independent.
As the leader of the clan I’m doing my best to ensure Rhiannon indeed will continue to be present in Mikramurka business and politics and we are cooperating with all relevant authorities when it comes to protecting the area from any threats.
I’m not from Matar, so you might think I don’t even have a monkey in this circus.
Except I do. And so do all the outer worlds clans.
Because there’s still at least one freaking great hugelarge question that hasn’t seen anything even remotely answer-shaped.
WHERE WAS FLEET ?
This is of critical importance, it’s like, difficult to even begin to describe how freaking hugely important this is.
So, they’ve arrested some planetary defence officials. What even is that ? They’ve busted some AA gun crews for being blind drunk and playing cards when they were supposed to be on duty ? That’s like, small beans.
WHERE WAS FLEET ?
I mean, this wasn’t an attack on a freaking Vherokior goat-herder tent camp on somewhere like Bogelek II, a planet you’d probably have to have looked up to know existed unless you were from there.
This was an attack on one of the bigger cities on freaking Matar itself. And the attackers had time to drop and recover assault shuttles. Not like a freaking bomb run or missile drop, where the ships just need to drop their load and scram. They had to be hanging around while their shuttles did their raid.
WHERE WAS FLEET ?
Did the freaking Grand Admiral even look out her office window ? She’d have been able to see the freaking Blooder fleet from there.
But wait, Grand Admiral Kasorata Fogneko, hmm, what’s her story ? Oh, in charge when Karishal Muritor mutinied. Still in charge when this Elder War thing happened, when Fleet was considered a bit of a joke by some. Oh, still Grand Admiral when the Colelie thing happened. And still in charge when freaking Matar was bombed and invaded by a hostile fleet of freaking Red Amarr.
Now this lot that’s in power in the Republic parliament these days, they tell us that the ones the Elders offed were all Gold Amarr agents. Uh-huh. And that all the incompetence was due to Gold Amarr manipulation. Uh-huh. So, we have to take it that since Grand Admiral Kasorata Fogneko is still in charge, that she’s competent, right ? Otherwise she’d have been offed by those Elder goon squads, right ?
So, Admiral.
WHERE WAS FLEET ?
Now then, it might be there’s an explanation, that the legacy of years of tight budgets means Fleet has capability holes, that these Red Amarr managed to exploit. But why were the budgets so tight ? Oh look, because money the Gallente thought was being spent on the Republic was being spent elsewhere, on this Thukker-Elder weird-ass invasion armada thing that they kept secret all those years. Whoopsy-doopsy.
But lets just say that Fleet, for whatever reason, couldn’t protect Matar that day, and the poor saps at Planetary Defence had to do the best they could.
Let’s think about what that means. Not just for our mates in Mikramurka, but for all our other kin.
If Fleet couldn’t protect Matar, how can we rely on them to protect Bogolek ? Or Edmalbrurdrus ? Or Tongofur ? Or Urnhard ? Or Hilfhurmur ?
If we can’t rely on Fleet, then our outerworlds kin have to see to their own defence, right ? As best as we can. Which is alright for those of us that have capsuleer clansmen, right ? I guess those clans that don’t are kind of screwed though, eh ?
But if Fleet wasn’t there, and we have to defend ourselves, then, why are our outerworlds kin even members of the Republic and paying taxes to support Fleet ?
Because this is why this question is so freaking important.
WHERE WAS FLEET ?
If Shakor, or Admiral Fogneko, or this Berialsh guy, can’t give a freaking good answer to that question. If the outerworlds clans can’t rely on Fleet to defend them. If every clan has to see to their own defences.
Then.
THERE IS NO REPUBLIC.
Well it is included in the planetary defence debacle in general. Why was none of the planetary defences functioning, where was the fleet, why were defence satellites offline (or bypassed somehow?), why air defences didn’t activate or if they did, why did they do a such sub-par job?
I am simply saying that the Empire has consistently been offering olive branches to the Minmatar for the past century, which you all very irrationally ignore. Hiederan VII, Doriam II, Jamyl I and Catiz I have all made concessions and offerings to that effect. Yet, all that is given in return is scorn, hatred and literal assaults on our patience. Perhaps if you’d let go of the fear and bitterness you would realize this is a sign.
On second thought, keep at your belligerence towards everything that moves. Perhaps eventually you will snap at something that breaks your teeth.
Those are big questions yeah, that need answers. I’m not denying that.
But… if you’re not convinced planetary defence is as good as it should be, there’s things that you and your clan can do about that. Even at the level of Mad Uncle Brynjolf who built a bunker with artillery turrets under his garden shed even after his wife specifically told him not to (she wanted autocannon).
We can bolster our own planet defences, without being reliant on the Republic. Those Krusual could tell you about that it seems.
But what our outerworld kin can’t do, is conjure up ships to patrol space, so that planetary defence doesn’t even need to be called upon.
Best planet defence is for the planet not to get hit in the first place, you know ? And that means space, which means Fleet.
I want to be sure that my planetside kin are safe. If I can’t rely on Fleet, who can I rely on ?
I feel compelled to say that goat herding is an honourable and respectable trade, and not a freaking one.
And to those smiling, I point I’ll find more wisdom and sense in the average herder than the “above average” capsuleer, or “I speak for nothing” official.
That being said, I concurr to the views Constance expressed.
As I outlined in another thread recently “nothing says I love you like a surface-to-orbit defence battery.” Though I can understand procuring them isn’t as easy as just saying it.
The Fleet doesn’t handle orbital defense. This stuff probably came onto the planet on commercial shipping. Customs should’ve caught it.
The Empire has consistently offered delays and distractions while holding our people as slaves. Those aren’t olive branches, they’re feints.
One would think you’d take the hint that the vast majority of the Empire understands a military Reclaiming is off the table for the foreseeable future. If you poor, shaking, beaten dogs would get that through your heads long enough to perhaps cooperate against common enemies such as the bastards that attacked your homeworld, we could prove our intentions rather than have you keep this pathetic, paranoid lie you tell yourselves going. All it serves as is a justification for vengeance taken through cowardly and violent acts.
Oh, and circular arguments that go nowhere here on this board. The offenses against debate in good faith and logic you commit on a daily basis should be tried by a warcrimes council.
The empire also has a power structure that revolves around 1 person, the emperor/empress. One who speaks for your god, and has the ability to change the empire’s stance on a whim. There are no checks and balances if “it is written.” Peaceful notions can be changed just as easily as hostile.
As I said before not all of you are hostile, though as a whole the ability to flip on a whim leaves me with the belief that the opposite flip can happen just as easily.
Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, I’m no scholar on Amarrian politics.
This is the part that has many of us deeply concerned and skeptical, Pilot Shutaq. Not that a military reclaiming is off the table permanently but, “for the foreseeable future”.
At any point the Imperial Throne could become belligerent again and reverse what the sovereigns you named decreed. That’s not very reassuring, at least not to me.
Also the namecalling and holier than thou attitude goes a long way of convincing many of us that your entreaties are less than sincere.
Let me state for the record that I don’t agree with many of the decisions undertaken by the current Shakor-led government. Indeed, I feel that the de facto coup through which it took power is antithetical to what we Matari believe in. However, it is the government which we have and, for better or worse, the one which I have taken an oath to protect and defend. I will work within the framework of that government to effect change as best I can, however.
As to the topic at hand, Constantly raises some great questions that I’d also like to have answered. These arrests (and the official response offered so far) raise more questions than answers.
lrn 2 read
u mad sis
I haven’t started anything. You’re the one who started yapping about how I didn’t warn about anything. Now that I’ve corrected you several times, you see that you’re wrong, but your pride won’t let you admit it, so you keep yapping, just like a
You’re also attempting to gaslight everyone in this thread by claiming that I threatened your clan. Fortunately, most people have had the good sense to ignore your empty whining. Because what I said was this:
That’s not a threat. That’s a reminder that while you might think it’s a good idea to pull your entire clan from a petition they’ve already supported, merely because you’ve decided that you don’t like me, the consequences would ripple far beyond me and you.
Starting ■■■■? No one in Ramijanawa gives two fucks about your clan. Please take a moment to deinflate your ego.
Such as here. Pay attention to that word: “they.” I identify as female. If you wanted to pay any respect to me, you would have said “she.” Your choice of pronoun here is a deliberate attempt to dehumanize me. This, again, is manipulative. You might think you’re slick, but you’re actually transparent.
You are the one who has resorted to name-calling, threats, and manipulation. You are the one who can’t admit to having misread comments.
There are others in this thread who disagree with the same line of thinking that you oppose, but none of them are acting like scared children in the night, proving right every dumb Matari stereotype that Amarr have peddled in this exact thread.
You, Teinyhr, are the problem here. Just you.
Accept it, fix it, and move on.
Maybe we’ll get to the most recent bastards that attacked our homeworld after we’re through with the original bastards that attacked our homeworld.
That seems like an incredibly irresponsible proposition. At least pick the leech off your arse before you get yourself gored on the tusk of an elephant. We may even help if you stop being foolish for the length of time it takes to realize we have things to offer one another and act upon that notion.
Can you offer me my world back? The rest of my Tribe?
Already been gored. Trying to pull ourselves off the tusk before we pull at a freakin’ leech.
Look, I really don’t want to be agreeing with Lord Consort Werehorsie in a public channel full of angry Minmatar, but that is really where we are right now.
The Amarr enslaved us. They invaded us, stole our sisters and brothers and have yet to free them, destroyed our worlds, and have us still scrambling to pick up the pieces. It hurts. I know that better than all of you apart from Sera, considering how bad off my clan came out of it and remains compared to everyone else’s.
But right now, the active threat is not the Amarr Empire. The active threat is whoever sicced blooders on Sundsele, and whoever in the Republic government let it happen, and everyone who directly benefited from it (Shakor, to start). Take a look at the Empire’s recent problems. Don’t they look a heck of a lot like ours?
Here we have the exact dude who had the most direct contact with our nearest opportunity for answers. And he’s going out of his way to offer an olive branch. Does he have something to gain from this? Definitely. But so do we.
Whatever powers are colluding to wreak havoc on our society have decided to divide us from within. What if we respond by not only uniting our own people, but also uniting, however briefly, with our likeminded old enemies? Wouldn’t that be a sight to run from?
Think about it. Seriously. I want you to sit down and think, meditate, wander, pray, get high, whatever it is you do to find direction.
I bet it’ll lead you to unity.
And before you say, “But you live with LUMEN now!” let me confirm that yes, I hang out with Amarr. I’ve talked with them. Individuals, with their own opinions and desires and motives. Kinda like we have. Trust me, they realize the pain that our shared history put us through. And some of them, at least, are opening their minds.
Maybe we should take this chance to encourage that shift in paradigm.
You’re absolutely right on that part. There is the Amarr Empire, and there are Amarr men and women. The two are not the same. Many of the ones that I have met are pretty decent people at their core. Some of them are not.
However, here’s where you’re wrong:
It is the policy of the Amarr Empire to enslave and destroy the Matari people and culture. Even if individual Amarr are caring people that do not want that, they don’t get a choice. The Amarr Empire, and the True Amarr leaders consider themselves to be the rightful rulers of the cluster, and slavery to be a natural part of the reclaiming.
Let’s look at Lord-Consort Aldrith Shutaq. Husband to Lady Mitara Newelle.
“A military Reclaiming is off the table for the forseeable future.” That is, as long as the Matari remain strong enough to fight them off. "[Y]ou poor, shaking, beaten dogs . . . " are not the words I would use to offer help. Even with his olive branch, he’s demanding we kneel. A military Reclaiming might not be feasible now, but you may rest assured it continues through other means. The Archbishop Constantin travels to Tribal space to try and convert Matari to the Amarrian faith.
Aldrith Newelle himself has very little influence. His wife has all of it. And she owns slaves, lots of them. Her Beast put down a rebellion in the most bloody of ways, with maximum violence. We can talk about the Tribes, but those slaves killed were Minmatar. They were of the Tribes.
I get that it’s complicated, Melisma. You meet some people and they seem nice and fun. They let you into their home, are accommodating. I understand, totally. I like some of them, too. But never, ever confuse the Amarr Empire with Amarr people.
The Starkmanir did the same thing. Saint Arzad Hamri was a great man, and a good Holder. And we were good slaves. He treated us well, with benevolence and a genuine concern for our well being. Under his guidance, the Starkmanir were furthest along the path to being Reclaimed.
And then it ended. The Amarr Empire killed him. The Amarr Empire destroyed our world and the Starkmanir Tribe. As long as that Empire exists, it will always be a threat. Even now, you’re seeing it happen again. The once that are nice, the ones that are decent, they are being attacked by one of the Theology Council, just like St. Arzad. How long before the Amarr you’re friends with are outcasts and outlaw because their Empire didn’t appreciate their point of view?
As far as peace with the Amarr people is concerned, if they work WITH us, they’re fine. Alot of these problems stem from the fact, well sometimes what’s lost does not wish to be found. Your kin found us, and tried to reclaim us. We don’t wish to be reclaimed. Please, let us enjoy our ignorance of your god. Believe me, it truly is bliss.