Avatar Gameplay Polls and Discussion - WiS & Beyond

What’s to understand, you want to bring back a feature that cost (lost) millions of dollars and had to be removed.

You need something pretty compelling to justify that and everything you are saying is THE SAME ■■■■ we heard back then.


I like the idea of wis and supported it when it was first attempted. I’m just realistic about it’s applications.

Is where you’re wrong again.

It’s not just that less than 10% of the players are interested in avatar gameplay. It’s that avatar gameplay is a completely different kettle of fish. An entirely separate set of coding and artwork. For all intents and purposes it is an entirely separate game.

That’s not to say they can’t work together, but when you make a comparison to null it just doesn’t apply in the same way. If eve was made with lego, null sec is more lego, you take bits you already have and know, modify them the way you want and they are designed to slot together easily. It’s worth it.

Avatar gameplay however is paint and canvas. It works very differently to lego and has a different set of rules. Combining these two is not a bad thing when theres a point to it when it’s worth it. A reason to go through that work other than ‘ooh shiny’. Because, as we know fron experience, ‘ooh shiny’ doesn’t last.

As someone who has spent nearly half of my 8 years in and out of ushrakahn i can say their members are the same folks you’d see in any lasting group of players. Like me there is generic interest in avatar gameplay, but i bet if you ask em you’d hear the vast majority turned off their captain’s quarters too.

Having a meeting room where all your avatars can hang out and chat would be cool a couple times, but before long it’d be much easier and faster for participants to just chat in a chat room or on comms without having to physically move their pod to a certain station. What do you think?

Only die hard role players would use an avatar meeting room or buy pointless beer in a space bar. Most of Ushrakahn are not die hard role players. It’s not a requirement for role play to be in the alliance and few actually partake in the activity. And even then it’s a few eve mails, the odd chatter in channels and comms, but not intel channels or fleet comms (you know, the ones that matter).


Yes there is interest in nova…as a separate game.

But what happened when eve players found the test un-engaging/un-fun? It got put on hold, indefinitely if i remember correctly.

Walking around? Immersion? Is nothing without working gameplay. Thank god ccp recognise this.

You folks want WIS to work? I do too. But we need to think of something to do with it first. If we can’t think of gameplay that would be engaging with black and white match-stick men, we may as well not bother with the artwork and immersion.

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This is the failure you are trying to revive.


Hmm… at first it seemed that you are trolling, by linking a topic where the OP did troll, but I read all the entries there and I gotta thank you. That was really helpful, Salt. And thanks for the rest of the reasonable posts you guys made, arguments are solid.

In the second page there is a reply from Sakura Imoru where they quote a portion of CCP Hellmar’s open letter regarding the events around Incarna, the reasons for them, the vision that CCP has for the game and the future plans. I found the full letter, I hope no one minds me snaring it, and I think it is a good time to review it and remember how things happened and note that it was a turning point for CCP and the EVE Community.

Incarna failed and there, in the letter, it is really well explained why. I really hope there is good understanding among the Community about these things and I do hope that we all can see how CCP has learned from the mistakes of the past. Just because it failed once, doesn’t mean it has changed the core vision of the developers.

If you fall from your bike and your friends call you a failure, do you cry and never bike again? You get up and try again, because you want to feel the freedom of movement the bike gives you. Same is with the vision that EVE devs want to deliver.

A quote from the letter:


For the same reasons, Incarna—the real one with actual meaningful gameplay in it— will be a big step towards the future. For an experience that relies so much on emergence and human interaction, it’s remarkable that it’s taken us this long to actually put a face on it. Once Incarna hits its stride, EVE will be more personal, and thus more accessible to general audiences. Visual self-expression in a virtual setting is a core psychological component of gaming; most people need to see their avatars, or something vaguely humanoid, or else they don’t connect with the game. We were behind the curve and it needs to be addressed for the sake of EVE’s longevity. We have the technology. Now we need time to add the content that will bring more meaning to the gameplay—again, without disrupting the space combat simulator that many of you are, or at least were, very much in love with—and without delaying crucial improvements that this core experience desperately needs.

A Humbler, Stronger CCP

I’m sharing these revelations with you now because it’s taken this long to transform them into action. From all this self-reflection, a genesis of renewal has taken root, a personal and professional commitment to restore the partnership of trust upon which our success depends, and a plan that sets the foundation for us to sensibly guide EVE to her fullest potential. In the coming days and weeks, the details of this plan and what it means for you will be unveiled. Part of what led us down this path is the fact we have not communicated well. This blog, and those that will follow, will hopefully demonstrate our conviction to transparency.

Good things are coming. They always do when you learn from your mistakes. In 2007, we faced a similar crisis of confidence, and it resulted in the creation of the CSM. We’re a better company because of it. In the last months, we’ve taken a hard look at everything, including my leadership. What I can say for now is that we’ve taken action to ensure these mistakes are never repeated. We have reexamined our processes, hired experienced industry professionals for key leadership positions, reassessed our priorities, moved personnel around and, above all else, recognized our limitations.

For me, the most frustrating aspect of this is that after all this time, as far as EVE has come and in spite of everything that’s happened, I fervently believe with all my heart that we’ve not even scratched the surface of EVE’s potential. My personal failing is not reconciling that passion with pragmatism. We’ve been trying to expand the EVE universe in several directions at once, and I need to do a better job of pursuing that vision without diluting or marginalizing the things that are great—or could be great—about the game right now. Nullsec space needs to be fixed. Factional warfare needs to be fixed. The game needs new ships. We need to do a better job of nurturing our new players and making EVE the intriguing, boundless universe it has the potential to be.

We really do have something that no one else has. EVE is still unique in the real and virtual world. This is our vision for her, and we want so badly to take you there. But getting there is not an entitlement. It will take hard work, open communication and, above all else, collaboration with you. The greatest lesson for me is the realization that EVE belongs to you, and we at CCP are just the hosts of your experience. When we channel our passion for EVE constructively, we can make this vision a reality together.

But enough talk from me. We all know that much quoted phrase, “It’s not what you say, it’s what you do,” that will make the difference here. From now on, CCP will focus on doing what we say and saying what we do. That is the path to restoring trust and moving forward.


Hilmar Veigar Pétursson, CEO

CCP Hellmar

And, of course, let me make it clear. We all want the Avatar Gameplay, if it is ever to be implemented, to be a separate game, leaving the core spaceship experience intact and with frequent improvements, just like we have it now. Separate game for the avatars, be it in Nova or in some new way, because the technology dictates so. The poll also shows most of the folks want it that way.

EVE devs know their limits and strengths and have a clear view on whether this is possible. Maybe the technology and developers teams composition do not allow for Incarna features to be implemented in the near future, but see above, read the letter in full and you will learn what their vision about the game is. I can resonate with it, as well as many other people.

The spaceship experience will keep improving and at one point, when the ship simulator is expanded wide and far, when Nova is a full game, more players will want a larger scope for the game, one that includes avatars, again, not making them mandatory for the ones that don’t need them.

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A little something relevant from today’s AMA with Hilmar



Yes, I also read it and I love it. It is awesome to have such a nice update! :heart: :rocket: :sun_with_face:

The big problem with WIS, is that to make it worthwhile it is essentially a new game.

i mean you its so different from Eve, you need a different game engine, completely new environments, entirely different movement physics…

Why would a game company put the money and resources into making an entirely new game and not have it be a stand alone game to sell next to its current games?

Throughout this topic, this has been discussed and as far as I can see, most of the participants agreed that a future iteration of WiS should be a separate project. This is also seen in the polls results (first post has the original poll and there is a link to the public votes poll).

For me, it seems that it would be a lot easier to integrate any future WiS development into Project Nova, since it is already in motion and it is essentially Avatar Gameplay with dropsuits. Will see what CCP will decide.

And creating an even more immersive world in the setting of EVE has become a lot easier, now that we have the advanced technology, featuring Unreal Engine 4 (used for EVE Valkyrie and Project Nova) shown in the video below.

I’m down with the ‘mobile game on Tranquility’ aspect… but I think I need more integration… and I think I have a fix for bumping too…

  • All Mining vessels now have a dirty great big Drill Bit on the front, it’s what they use to mine (lasers are bad for the environment, it’s been found).

  • In the instance that you ‘accidentally’ run into someone with your Drill Bit, it gouges a dirty great big hole in the side of the ship (size of hole dependent, of course, on armor/hull amounts).

  • This is when the mini-mobile game kicks off… on your mobile!

  • You’re now a man in a spacesuit (or however you like your avatar to be dressed), and you can actively board and take over the ship you’ve just rammed into. If you have friends they can all join in with their avatars too, on their mobiles.

  • Both ships involved remain in space, should someone ‘accidentally’ run into either ship, they are now in direct competition for all ships via hand to hand avatar combat (maybe with knives… or swords).

  • Winner takes all (the ships/contents of ships), losers have been effectively ‘podded’ back to their home stations).

Eve is saved?

FTFY :slight_smile:



Fighting on the surface of ships was showed in the Project Nova demo at Fanfest 2018, I think. They have moved back to the drawing board, so they can improve the stuff they have been working on. But it would be indeed interesting to have some fighting inside ships. Be it against major pirate factions or PVP matches, there is definitely room for experimentation.

As far as I know Nova will not have a link to the capsuleer experience, at least initially. Not sure how the stuff would work on mobile eventually. I would be perfectly happy if we got Avatar Gameplay for PC.

Let’s hope we will get some news about this at Fanfest 2020.

Way to necro a thread, was a bad idea then, is a bad idea now.


Mods can’t tell you why people flag you. They only determine if the flag is warranted and act accordingly. If they believe it’s not worth giving a ■■■■, they might as well just do nothing.

There is strong reason to believe that you got flaggged for necroing a three month old untouched thread no one cared about anymore. That looks like a really good reason to me and it’s perfectly understandable.

I’m posting this to counter that weird vibe of self importance I’m getting from your post, which might just be a misunderstanding on my part. You should definitely think about the motivation behind the flag.

Have a good one.

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There is no self importance intended in my post.

I care about this discussion, so I want to continue it. If someone doesn’t want to discuss in this thread, they should leave it and not participate in it.

If I am the only person who cares about this thread, then please, let it be locked.

Well … yeah, I agree. If they don’t like it, they can leave it, but you left a weird impression.

You left it for three months … TWICE … and then came back to apparently prevent the necro-lock. That doesn’t feel like you care, it feels like you just want it to stay open. So there already is six months of evidence that no one really gives a ■■■■.

Anyhow, good luck with your thread!

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Yes, good point, thanks.

RL has prevented me from reviewing the topic as frequent as I would like.

Somehow I wanted to discuss more, given the fact that there are recent events that would bring back the interest, but I guess the polls and the topic is pretty much concluded.

I have ideas for a new poll on the topic of avatars and I will monitor the community, wait some time and see if there is interest in avatars in the future.

In the CSM Minutes they’re stating that they’re going to rework the randomization algorithm, something something, I forgot the details.

I made a suggestion based on that in PFID and the thread got a whole whopping zero responses. Actually a good and smart suggestions to improve the outcome of their randomizer.

Zero Responses.

Oh and one Like.


Go figure. :smiley:

Talking about self importance, stop talking for everyone. This thread, along with quite (years of evidence) a few others have shown that “no one cares” is false. Just because I don’t post about my interest every 3 months does not mean it is gone. I have wanted avatar gameplay in EVE since 2008 and likely I’ll remain doing so for years to come.


It could be considered bumping. Which isn’t allowed in idea threads iirc.

Likely beyond most people’s knowledge and understanding.

I haven’t read it. :slightly_smiling_face:

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That’s a really nice compliment! :smiley:
Thank you! :smiley:

Oh. I didn’t know that.

Shameless plug in an already dead thread.

It’s not complicated and for you definitely no problem at all to understand!

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First you post a poll with the voters hidden.

Then you cheat and stack the poll with all your alts.

Then every three months you bump the lie.

@ISD_Buldath Can we please get this lie locked?