Boost capitals and supers even more

Council Of Stellar Management Assembly Hall
22

Sorry but you really are just an idiot. Why would I bother trying to get issues with nulsec addressed if I didn’t have a stake in it.

Unlike you I don’t profess to know everything about Eve and represent EVEYONE. I will only speak about aspects of the game I know.

Now you’re just taking the piss. You belong to the most game breaking, risk averse group in the game - The only issues you have are that you’ve beaten the game and are now asking for more…

You should really step back take a good honest look at your posting, especially in this thread - Don’t be embarrassed for me, I can honestly say - I’m no elitist who simply wants bigger better ships to more easily ruin the game for others because I’m a rich player and deserve to “win” eve.

NB; Asking for a class of ships only the richest most elitist players can access shows just how little you understand and care what “game balance” is.

You don’t want “what’s best for the game” you just want another “I win” ship class in your hanger.

I can honestly say, I feel nothing but pity for you and your attitudes toward how the game is/should be played.

. Bit sad you have to flag a post simply because it is a bit critical of your poor judgement and inaccurate presumptions.
Oh well, typical of your type - “If I don’t like it, it isn’t true so hide it from the world”.

Might want to look up my character BEFORE making more unfounded presumptions.
Little as there is, this characters history is there for anyone to see, making things up to suit your own narrative DOESN’T make them true Brisc.

23

Filaments are just the latest in a long line of changes CCP put in the game in an attempt to see more destruction - Sadly, like with the constant nerfs of the last few years, all filaments have done is make those who are most at risk, more likely NOT to undock in the first place.

24

I haven’t seen you try to do this. Normally you’re just calling people names and railing against everybody else’s ideas.

I’m embarrassed for you because you can’t have a civil disagreement - everybody is an idiot, and then you throw in your scatological nonsense like a child, instead of making cogent points.

Yes, I’m asking for a class of ships only the richest players can access. There is room in the game for this - there are dozens and dozens of cheap and powerful ships that cost next to nothing. Those with a lot of money and not much to do with it want something more expensive that is worth the money. Not faction titans that are a complete waste. Not faction supers and dreads that are arguably worse than their T1 counterparts. There aren’t even T2 caps. The idea that players at their idea of the end game don’t deserve something new because they’re “rich” is absurd. If we can spend ten thousand hours on new player experiences, we can spend a miniscule amount of time on something for veterans. And, frankly, there are a lot of people who would benefit from this. If you’re not one of them, that’s not a big deal. It’s not your game play, so don’t worry about it.

I did. I assumed it was a forum alt, because you haven’t had a kill or lost a ship in six years. Do you actually play this game?

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So you ARE asking for an “I WIN” ship class for the richest and elitist in the game.
As an aside, how much do you see as expensive - just curious in case someone at CCP has completely lost it and you get your way - How many I can afford to buy.
Will I need to sell my current collection of Supers/Titans or will a couple of trillion in stashed isk do?

I can’t? Who is it said the game play wasn’t mine so I shouldn’t worry?
Your “goto” when you have a poor arguement is to try and belittle those who disagree with you. You don’t even argue anything, just straight to belittling. That is why I said you should step back and look at your own posting history.

You mean the ones who don’t actually want to fight, will hold up in a single constellation for as long as it takes for their enemies to get bored and leave and then claim victories as they roflstomp a retreating enemy you bored into surrender, those who will more then happily use anything new CCP give them to stomp anyone for the sake of it with no thought for the future of the game.

Tell me, why did CCP have to nerf the life out of everything above BS - Was it because the rich shitlords abused them (and still do).

I’ve said MANY times this is a forum alt. Created because at the time the alliance I was in didn’t allow line members to post.
So curious, you did look me up AND still made a crack about being in ProviBlock, I wonder who can’t have a civil arguement without resorting to belittling and name calling.

Be honest now - You don’t actually “read” my posts do you - You skim a few lines and type a belittling response to what you think my post said.
You know what Brisc, I’m going to leave you and your duped followers to each other. You obviously don’t care about the future of the game unless it gives you more, which makes you the worst type of veteran player.

All I want is a game where I can “use” the ships and assets I’ve accrued over the last 17 years, without having to worry about the 200 man capital/support fleet I’m in being dropped by 900 Briscs in their new OP “endgame” ships.
I used to admire Goons for what they achieved, now I just pity them and those associated with them - They created such a rich, effiecient empire they removed their own game play, so now have nothing left but to whine about vets not getting yet something else to roflstomp others with.

If you have an ounce of reality about you when it comes to NulSec game play - You know it needs a giant shakeup, Sov is too safe, Structures are too safe, Docking/Tethering Supers is too safe. You want something different to do in the game, FIX THOSE few things and just watch - You don’t need new expensive ships - You needs reasons to use and lose the ones you have.

Do you remember - “We don’t want to ruin THE game, just your game”
When did that change to - We don’t care about THE game, just give us an “I WIN” ship class because we deserve it.

26

i feel like you never actually read what I write, you just jump to an absurd conclusion so you can keep feeling superior. I didn’t ask for an “I win” button. I want a new tier of ships above what titans are now. I envision these as what titans used to be - more like strategic level assets for the big groups in the big group fighting against each other meta. They should require a couple of titans or supers together to be built, and the market will set the price, but it should be more than what it costs now for faction supers. They should be actually useful, though, unlike faction titans, which are all gimmicks.

I did, because I don’t know who you are being what I’ve seen you say, and given your antipathy towards nullsec players, I accepted that you weren’t one. If that’s not true, it’s not my fault - you can’t sit here and say things like “just look me up” when you’re on a forum alt, lol. I mean, what was the point of that statement?

All I know about you is what I see - an angry dude who jumps on me and others all the time for no real reason. You take what I say and put words in my mouth that aren’t there. And then when I respond politely, you get even more angry. It’s unfortunate. I don’t belittle anybody. I thought I remembered you saying something about being in provibloc. If you weren’t, that’s my mistake and it wasn’t some kind of intentional slight. If you read what I’m saying as me speaking down to people, you’re reading something that isn’t there.

Spare me the Grr Goons nonsense.

That’s not what I’m suggesting, and if you actually read what I wrote, you’d understand that. But I guess you’d rather just get angry because I don’t know who you are.

What do you think I’ve been advocating for the last two years? Seriously, dude. You seem to expect me to have everything you’ve written memorized but you have no idea what I’ve been advocating here, on reddit, and on the various shows I do almost every day?

Again, there is nothing wrong with the idea of providing a new tier of ships for folks who have hit the end game in regards to ship classes and want something better. This doesn’t have to be imbalanced or have major applications outside of capital fleet fights.

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27

Yep, you’re asking for CCP to give you an I WIN ship class.
Why do you think only the rich elite should have something that is superior to the other classes of ship the rich elite broke?

Who would you fight with them? Big groups don’t “fight” anymore - Goons being able to hold out in a single constellation for a year has put an end to the possibility of any major confrontations in the future - - Meh, we can’t win this, lets get into one system that becomes invulnerable with a whole coalition hiding in it.

Confirmed - You don’t actually “read” my posts or you’d be aware, My antipathy isn’t towards “nulsec” players in general Just the over represented, oppressive coalitions.

That’s EXACTLY what you’re suggesting - You even did it again in this post

Funny, I don’t expect anything from you. I certainly don’t expect you to understand where my opinions come from - We just don’t play the same game and you make it very clear you don’t care about others play styles.
I don’t like blob warfare and 10% tidi, which I think I’ve made pretty clear AND because of that, according to you I’m not playing the game right.

I’ve been saying the same things since the release of FozzieSov, Structures and Rorqual changes - The way these changes were added to the game have single handedly led to the poor state of the game today - And from my position neither CCP the CSM or for that matter the groups that continue to oppress the game are interested or willing to address the underlying issues.
Having a new elite ship class will only add to the already stagnant arena called nulsec, without the rest of nulsec issues being addressed first.
Sov, Structures, Super/Titan proliferation - Address these directly, fix the underlying issues with nulsec blob game play - you’ll find you don’t “need” a new elite class of ship BUT you may get it, if groups don’t just use it like they use Supers now - As a deterrent to would be attackers.

28

You do realise what you’re asking for right?
Current capitals were nerfed into oblivian due to proliferation, now you want a new class of ships a tier above those currently available.

Ok, how much more powerful does this new class need to be to keep the type of group/player you’re representing happy?

  • How many current Supers/Titans would it take to destroy one
  • How easily can this new ship destroy a current top tier ship
  • How many of them can a single alliance/coalition own
  • How many can be on the same grid during a battle
  • Can they be “privately” owned or would they be an “alliance” only asset

Just to clarify - I had 1 Titan and 2 Super pilots who had to logoff in pos’s, they had a single role - to fly Supers.
I’d be all for another tier of Supers, if done right and the current issues with proliferation were addressed.

29

I explained it already - because there have been no new bigger ship classes in 15 years, and those players have been asking for new ships. CCP wants to use up resources and get rid of liquid isk, this is a way to do that.

There’s no such thing as an “I win” button, and I don’t want that. I do want new ships.

Yeah, everybody said we were invincible, then we lost all our space except three systems, and we defended that against a bumbling, risk averse group that was poorly led. This doesn’t mean we’re invincible, and it doesn’t mean all wars are over.

Which is most of nullsec.

I care about all play styles - you’re the one who doesn’t care about mine. Otherwise, you’d recognize that this idea is designed for the big coalitions. If the small guys want to get some of these ships, they’re free to. But the idea is to help soak up isk and minerals that the big guys are stockpiling in a way that won’t force nerfs to the rest of the game.

Again, you’re putting words in my mouth. You’re free to play the game any way you want. I just ask that I be given the same consideration.

Why on earth do you think I’m suggesting that CCP work on this before all that other stuff? All I said was I wanted new ships and you invented this entire narrative in your head. Why? Just read what I say and don’t put words in my mouth. I’m not advocating for this before the more obvious, basic things need to be fixed.

Yes. I’m suggesting that nerfing ships because of “proliferation” is wrong and dumb, and that CCP should have expected proliferation and accepted it. Instead of spending all their time trying to balance ships because of what the biggest groups do with them, they should have just let everybody get them, and introduce new aspirational stuff. A titan is not as big a deal now as it was 5 or 10 years ago.

These are all good questions and things CCP would need to come up with if they think adding these ships is a good idea. I’m not going to design the game for them, but I’m sure that Rise and the Talos guys can walk in with this and figure out how to make it a thing.

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30

Game mechanics which allowed you to stay safe are what won the war. As I said, fix the issues with Supers, structures and sov, then and only then will nulsec wars have any meaning. Goons set the precedent, now anyone who doesn’t want to “fight” a war can just bottleup and game mechanics will protect them…
Strategy of 1DQ - they bring 400 subcaps, we’ll undock 200 supers tethered (so completely safe) and have 800 subcaps ready. 10% tidi before the “enemy” arrives courtesy of poor game design wins the day. No amount of good or bad leadership can overcome N+1 when it is stacked to STOP enemies getting to a fight.

It is pretty much now sadly, your group single handedly broke the will of the few smaller alliances that weren’t part of a coalition.
A 4,000 man group can’t stand against a coalition and for the game balance that was promised with the introduction of FozzieSov (smaller groups can take and hold sov), that is the major problem with nulsec today. The game wasn’t designed for the type of groups that run it, so stagnancy and lack of activity is the future.
For BoB’s sake, you guys dropped 60+ Hacs on a 15 man T1 frigate and cruiser fleet - Even the biggest shitlord can’t call that “good” content.

If 1DQ taught us anything - It’s time for the rules to change and if the player run empires won’t do it themselves - CCP needs to.

You’re right I don’t - I’ve seen your playstyle willing destroy other smaller groups simply because they could, which goes against everything Eve used to be. It used to be about conquest to gain something, now it’s about being dicks as much as possible then going home. You’ve caused what was an active indepentent alliance that used to have 200 to 300 people online daily to become puppets who only login when the master calls.
I don’t need more reasons to dislike what you call “game play” but primarily it’s because It isn’t fun. What your group does is more akin to highsec ganking than actual pvp.

I can’t play the game the way I want - You already took that away from me.

No you don’t, you have shown quite clearly you not only don’t care about my play style, you actively suppress it.

Maybe you could spend a second and say so, even try adding what YOU see as some of these issues - Pick the right ones because what you see as issues aren’t the same for thousands of others.

That right there is the underlying issue with EVERYTHING nulsec. I got my big toys (and lost a couple) well before CCP turned them into giant T1 frigates that evey man and his dog could get. Now they are logged of in space and will likely stay there till the servers go down.
Again this comes back to player motivation and willingness to change. CCP nerfed the life out of them because they eventually realised having the biggest groups in the game controlling how everyone plays wasn’t working. IMO they didn’t go far enough,
CCP simply made a poor design decision that led to proliferation, then followed it up a few years on with another poor design decision which limits who owns Supers by which mega group they belong to.

Have you not been watching what CCP does with development? How do you think we got to where we are - Eve being a shadow of its former self and still losing more players daily.
I like Rise but when it comes to development those above him have the final say and if it won’t make them money they won’t do it.
For my money, releasing a new line of ships for the rich and elite won’t happen simply because there is no cash flow in it. Unless of course it is freely available to the few whales still spinning credit cards, which completely defeats the purpose of a ship for the rich and elite with too much isk…

31

I have better solution.
The button ‘Win at EVE’.
The button should be awarded only for pilots of Imperium regarding their victory in the recent war.
After the activation of the button, it shows permanent baige ‘Winner of EVE’ on your character’s portrait. And you see the enemy fleet crushed by your powerful blow, driven before you, and you hear lamentations of their women.
The image then is fading away, and you at last see credits.
After the activation of the button, you are no longer able to log in into Eve.

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32

If capital power matched its cost it would not even be an issue, as it would mean massively nerfing capitals. ISK/(HP*DPS) makes capital ships amongst the cheapest weapon in the game, how can you not know this? They become even more severely OP when you factor available fleet members & even more OP when you factor TIDI too.

33

How many capital fights have you been in? How many capitals do you own right now?

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brewlar alt… probably none.

35

I’ve owned all 4 of the empire Titans, I currently field an Avatar, I have Nyx’s, Tons of dreads & carriers, by tons <25, I just checked. That’s more than I will need.

I don’t own any faction capitals, I mind you brokering a few faction capital trades, ahhh drama.

I have been in a few capital fights, but I avoid TIDI like the plague.

I repeat, ISK/(HP*DPS) makes capital ships amongst the cheapest weapons in the game, it is pretty much which define collations like the one you are part of.

It gets even worse when you realise that these cheap ships were also some of the best hulls to insure owing to t1 components. Even worse to think of the days when they were also the most mobile ship in the game.

I honestly don’t know what crack CCP devs were smoking back in the day when they made capitals, they had this ship class hull scale that was nice linear by cost , HP, DPS & declining mobility. Then some one just went ‘yolo’ lets make capitals insane, ripped up the linear graph of power creep and here we are today.

I completely agree that reducing their proliferation is not the answer as Mittens points out on the meta show a lot.

My answer would be the same answer as IRL, make tiny craft capable of blasting capitals out of the water.

For the sake of eve you could balance it with cost. My suggestion is make a frigate mountable anti-capital weapon that can 1 shot a Titan. A frigate mounted doomsday, make it cost as much as a Titan for balance purposes, I think 50 to 100bn on the HP of a frig would be cool.

36

They were thinking “we want to give people big ships to aspire to.”

I honestly don’t think they’re really balanced isk/utility right now, which is why they’re not really being used. I want to see them focused on anti-capital, and not really subcap fighting, and that’s where they really are in my opinion. They’ve been nerfed heavily against subcaps, at least the non-carrier ones.

But yeah, we want them used, but I’d prefer they be used against each other.

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37

Hey Brisc. I agree, new ships are always fun and it is absolutely a good idea to give veteran players new end-game goals…

My question is how do you go about adding new stuff like this without there being too many balancing issues with the already existing ships?

I think we’ve all seen how delayed CCPs response was to the whole super proliferation issues they created and puts “valve time” to shame lol. I feel as though they need to tighten the reins on already existing ships and placing them in a defined box of intended use while giving players some room to experiment without breaking the game too much.

38

That’s for the devs to figure out, but there is no reason why they can’t figure it out .

The issue there was they didn’t seem to accept and realize that proliferation was inevitable. If they go in assuming that these ships will become part of the meta and accept that, then they can ensure that they’re more properly balanced.

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39

In all honesty, there is another ship type that could possibly be of use to help with that. In the past we were given ‘Mobile Siphon Unit’ that was used to steal moon goo and became obsolete with the changes to moon mining and the change in the use of pos’s occurred. However, it is possible that they could make a ship with a similar focus on moon mining but instead of stealing it, it could be used to hack refineries to either delay or stop the current cycle which would make skilling the hacking skill even more feasible. Obviously, it wont affect the owners of that refinery straight away but over time it would do and help to cause them to deplete their current stock. In addition to that, it may also have an affect on the marketed t2 raw materials / component pricing thus increasing other t2 mods and ship prices.

40

brisc mentioned that dreads got nerfed, but fighters damage got nerfed against smaller targets as well

41

and from experience the amount of damage you do to a 3/4 speed inty is negligible.